Have you looked at the Challenger 2 at all?
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I do it in real life but not in game - be like me
Don’t even tell me about it.
This is not even a joke at this point. 2S38 is so bad it’s insane.
I have around 1.4 kd in leo2, and about 1.3 kd in KVT, and i’ve used these tanks to “learn the high tier” - i’ve started playing them after couple years of break from warthunder, learning the game from the start.
Even after that, i just can’t stand playing 2s38, it’s so OP that i should at least score something similar
to my leo and kvt. It’s “so OP” that i can’t even be positive in it. It’s so overpowered that i can’t even find anyone who would have good stats with it.
2S38 looks cool, have good themrals and thats about it from the pros. It’s slow free frag. I’m always happy to see it, because i know i will get free frag from it.
Serious buyers remorse.
People confuse it as OP because every single autocannons are just annoying.
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Are you using it as an AA system, or a “ersatz” IFV?
The Challengers have a fast reload for 4 rounds and then it is as slow if not slower than the T-72s. On top of that the time taken to replenish the ready rack is 20ish seconds per round which makes it difficult to have more than 2 rounds in the ready rack during matches.
Misleading and not true in the slightest
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I said ‘‘T-80U’’ and not ‘‘T-80BVM’’.
Please read posts properly before replying.
That is indeed what it looks like if you do not understand how to use the protection analysis tool.
Here’s an explanation on how to use the tool correctly:
It’s not even close to being a straight and level shot.
If you are still not convinced, just get a buddy and head on over to the eastern side of the Cargo Port map in a custom battle.
The terrain is 100% flat there and you can test this out as much as you want, I’ll guarantee that no APFSDS will penetrate that area as you claim it does, even if you close the distance to 150 meters.
(And please don’t reply back to me claiming I’m wrong without doing this test)
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T-72 is 7.1 seconds.
Challengers (assuming expert crew) is 5.3 - 6.4 seconds.
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Short of arguments? :D
because I know how to use the tool and i can do the basic geometry:
Because i know the UFP angle (80°) and i know the impact angle of the shot from the tool (80°), I therefore know this shot is from the perfect level.
You did the test ? share the replay and the hit files…
You didn’t even bother looking at the chart I provided.
So firstly: The burden of proof lies with you. You’re the one claiming that the upper glacis is penetrable. It’s up to you to provide evidence to support that case.
Secondly, The point is that there’s people who are so dense and so incredibly convinced of their own argument, that the only way to convince them otherwise is to have them perform this test themselves.
Only then will they be confronted directly with evidence they can’t refute.
Thirdly, I asked you to perform this test before replying to me. The only reason I can think off why you’re not willing to test it out is because you already know the results won’t be in your favour.
And fourthly: If I share you a clip/replay, you’re just gonna do what all other similarly misinformed people have done in the past: Claim that it’s staged, performed incorrectly, etc. That’s why you can go ahead and test it yourself.
Sigh…
It’s almost as if that makes a major difference:
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Yes for the first 4 rounds the reload is between 5.0 and 6.5 seconds depending on the crew (5.3 seconds for expert). However after the ready rack is depleted the reload slows to approximately 7 seconds or more depending on the crew.
6.4 seconds*
I just told you :P
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As i do not have any challengers -
So, to be clear:
Reload for first 4 rounds is 5.3 seconds
And then all next reloads (without ready rack replenished) are 6.4 seconds, right?
That’s basically leopard 2 reload. And i thought it was like 10 sec or something, when i’ve read britmains complain about it. The audacity…
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It isn’t though. I just checked it in game with the Challenger 1 MK3. Granted I am missing 2% of the commander skill buff but it is close enough to show it isn’t 6.4 seconds.
The reload is then 7 seconds once the ready rack is empty. As shown by the following screenshot.
We complain because now the Leclerc, Merkava Mk 4’s and M1’s are all on 5 second reloads consistently, even though the Challengers are worse in every other regard already.
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Jesus Christ… they nerfed it?!
I recorded the reload rate a couple years back and got to exactly 6.4 seconds, now it’s 7.1?!
That is so sad and even more reason to have them drop back to 11.3 - 11.0.
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That is finally some argument I can accept as correct. Yes, if construction angle is 82° then yes shot will bounce.
So I retract my previous statement about UFP.
May pont that the T-80 is much smaller (therefore weakposts) then L2 or M1 remains.
That’s interesting, but not unsurprising considering the track record with Challenger treatment.
6.4 seconds would be manageable but 7 with such a small ready rack and long restock time is really quite bad. It is a shame as they could at least be useable with bigger ready racks. They could fix it by adding the rear bins to the ready rack count like they do on the Chieftain.
Additionally on the T-55 and the T-62 series the hull stowage is counted as the ready rack, which just doesn’t make sense as the hull stowage isn’t really accessible. Whereas on the Chieftain and Challenger the rear turret bins are actually useable during combat. But for some reason the Challenger doesn’t get the rear turret bins counted as part of the ready rack.
6.6 with ace
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Fair, but seeing how important the first 2 shots usually are, I would much rather have a 5.3 second reload for the first 4 shots than have a permanent 7.1 second reload like the T-72/90.
However I’m not implying that the Challenger 2s are good though, they are kind of sad at the moment.
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That is fair. However, in matches it isn’t always possible to begin engagements with a full ready rack. And once you consider the incorrect armour and dreadful turning the Challengers are in quite a poor state. Plus the reload gets even longer once the loader is killed.
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