Richelieu class battleship, MN Clemenceau - A return to tinkering

Would you like to see Clemenceau added to the game?
  • Yes
  • Maybe
  • Unsure
  • No
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Richelieu class battleship, MN Clemenceau - A return to tinkering


Background & History

The MN Clemenceau was the 3rd of the planned 4 Richelieu class battleships of the Marine nationale which were being built prior to and during the Second World War. In the end the class would only have 2 vessels completed as the last 2 vessels would never be completed due to a variety of reasons, these two vessels where the Clemenceau and Gascogne who unlike the completed ships were both modified designs reflecting the old habits of French battleship designs which seem to result in classes of ships who members differ wildly, though not horrendously for the Richelieu class.

The Clemenceau herself was a slightly modified version of the first two vessels as her design was changed to include more secondary guns in a revised layout as well as the addition of a 4th secondary turret, they also added additional AA guns as the threat of aircraft was becoming more and more apparent. The secondary battery itself on the design of the Clemenceau gave the vessel a far superior layout as they were positioned with two rear mounts in a super firing position and the other two as wing mounted turrets which gave them a better broadside for the secondary battery, though a earlier plan purposed for the change actually would have been a hybrid between the final result and the design of the first two vessels which would have meant two pairs of wing turrets located in the original design position for the class as well as the wing mounts amidship, beyond this however the ships design was consistent with her sisters more or less. Both Clemenceau and Gascogne would never see the light of day as one of the biggest issues the French had was the lack of major docks which were large enough to build these ships, this was emphasized the most in the fact that they were so limited in dock space that the day Richelieu was launched from her dock the Clemenceau was laid down in the same dock all in the same day, and in the case of Gascogne who could not be laid down as she was to do the exact same as she was supposed to have been laid down in the same dock as Jean Bart and due to the time they had was the reason for the design changes, the materials for the Gascogne also were gathered before Jean Bart had been completed however the Gascogne was never laid down as the Jean Bart was never completed before the Germans had begun invading France and were threatening the incomplete battleship which saw workers hastily dig a channel so they could have the ship escape instead of risking capture which meant that the ship never had the chance to be laid down.

Due to the state of the Clemenceau by the time of the German invasion in France the Clemenceau was never able to escape the dock as the hull was only 10 percent complete which may have prevented any such action. Once the Germans had control over the docks they considered for a time to complete the vessel as they renamed her to Schlachtschiff R however due to a shortage of materials as the Germans had bigger priorities as well as lack of workers they decided against completing the vessel and would end up floating the ship out of dock so it could be used by other ships, the hull itself was let to sit afloat in France until 1944 when Allied bombers sunk the incomplete hull. After the war it was planned to sell the hull for scrap but were unable to find any buyers, so the French government had the ship raised and moved to clear the harbor however likely due to the incomplete state of the vessel she broke in half and sank once more, this time however the French government was successful in selling her to scrappers in 1951.

In terms of the ships armament her main guns were identical to her sisters with a total of 8 380 mm/45 (14.96 inch) Model 1935 guns in the two quadruple turrets at the ship’s front, the ships secondary armament consisted of the aforementioned 12 152 mm/55 (6 inch) Model 1930 guns in 4 triple turrets with 2 in a super firing pair at the rear part of the ship and the other turrets in wing positions placed amidship, the ship also had a dual purpose battery consisting of 12 100 mm/45 (3.9 inch) Model 1933 guns in twin mounts, as for the ships AA armament this consisted of 12 37mm/70 CAID Model 1935 guns in 6 twin mounts, the remainder of the AA armament was also planned to consist of 32 13.2 mm Model 1929 guns in 8 quad mounts. The ship was designed to be equipped with float planes as she had been planned with 2 Loire 130 seaplanes as this aspect was consistent with the first two vessels. Beyond the changes in her weaponry her ammunition stowage’s were modified as the 152mm magazines were designed to also store the 100mm and 37mm ammunition however in all other real respects the ship remained the same as the first two ships, so at least she was better without the extra complications.


Specifications

Displacement
35,000 long tons (36,000 t) (Standard)
44,100 long tons (44,800 t) (Full load)

Length 247.85 m (813 ft 2 in) o/a

Beam 33.08 m (108 ft 6 in)

Draft
9.63 m (31.6 ft) (Standard)
9.9 m (32 ft 6 in) (Full load)

Installed power
6 ×Sural-Indret boilers
155,000 shp (116,000 kW)

Propulsion
4 × Parsons geared steam turbines
4 × screws

Speed 32 knots (59 km/h; 37 mph)

Complement 1,670

Armament
Main armament
8 × 380 mm/45 (14.96 inch) Model 1935 guns (2 x 4)
(104 rounds per gun; 416 rounds per turret; 832 rounds in total)

Secondary armament
12 × 152 mm/55 (6 inch) Model 1930 guns (4 x 3)
(400 rounds per gun; 1,200 rounds per turret; 4,800 rounds total)

Dual purpose armament
12 × 100 mm/45 (3.9 inch) Model 1933 dual purpose guns (6 x 2)

AA armament
12 × 37mm/70 CAID Model 1935 guns (6 x 2)
32 × 13.2 mm Model 1929 machine guns (8 x 4)

Armor
Belt: 320 mm (13 in)

Main deck: 170 mm (6.7 in)

Main Turrets: 430 to 250 mm (17 in)

Secondary turrets: 116 mm (4.6 in)

Dual purpose guns: 30 mm (1.2 in)

Conning tower: 340 mm (13 in)

Aviation facilities
2 catapults

Aircraft carried
4 x Loire 130 seaplanes


Sources

Spoiler

Richelieu-class battleship - Wikipedia
RICHELIEU battleships (1940 - 1949) (navypedia.org)
Warship - Clemenceau - Battleship

Image Sources

Spoiler

http://3dhistory.de/wordpress/warship-drawings-warship-blue-prints-warship-plans/french-battleship-drawingsplan-sets-newest-first/french-battle-ship-clemenceau-as-planed-1940/
French Battleship Clemenceau - Destination's Journey
French Battleship Clemenceau (Ready for Points) - Axis & Allies ForuMINI

6 Likes

+1 but the AA armament is stronger than you listed. Both your schematics show the 37mm/70 CAID Model 1935 in enclosed turrets with associated range finders. Ive marked where I can clearly see the rangefinders in blue, and the 37mm turrets in red.

1 Like

If I am being honestly, I never noticed that originally as the image I used showing that was one I used when I made the original version of this suggestion when they still allowed to have multiple vehicles under one suggestion, as the suggestion was in its original form about the Clemenceau and Gascogne. I believe when I originally made that suggestion the sources, I used at the time only suggested the newer 37’s were going to first be installed on Gascogne and given this suggestion was made from trying to cut out half of what it was about I never made that many changes besides still cutting out anything more specific to Gascogne. Also doesn’t help I haven’t gone out my way to remake more suggestions I had made or make new ones, so I also haven’t been looking back too much at my own suggestions, and usually when do still edit them it is fixing minor grammar errors I made when I originally so yeah… that being said I appreciate you pointing that out and I updated that part of the suggestion to correct it.

Clemanceau and Gascogne, tbh, would make nice additions to Rank VIII Naval, perhaps one as a Squadron/Event ship and one as a premium or something similar. Either way, you have my +1 for Clem

The Gascogne battleship was never laid down, nor even started. I don’t even think there was a finalized design blueprint for it. It can’t be added to the game. Clemenceau however, certainly could. Though I’m willing to bet, knowing Gaijin’s, that the next event French battleship will be the Jean Bart.

So yes and no… Gascogne is easily the most questionable suggestion I have ever made (tldr this suggestion is based off one I made which was about both this ship and Gascogne back on the old forums before the curbed suggestions on multiple vehicles, main difference here being I reworked it to focus on Clemenceau given the keel was undeniably laid down) to a point where I actually choose to actively avoid making a new separate when I was making this one also a separate suggestion. From what I found yes Gascogne was never laid down but that materials for the ship were being gathered for the ships keel laying which was being prevented by Jean Bart taking up the dock space (since well France didn’t exactly have a large amount of docks to begin with to lay such ships down so they didn’t have any other options.) and at the very least though the plans were finalized.

Given the fact the original version of this suggestion was approved following the same rules for suggestions now minus not combining the suggestion of what is considered two separate vehicles (basically if they are different enough they won’t allow it) so I would assume given that suggestion had gotten approved in the first place a new Gascogne suggestion may be possible, but I don’t really go out of my way to try make suggestions and to be honest it may be so iffy it may depend on the suggestion mod approving it.

2 Likes

The main reason I even bothered to bring her up is that we do have a similar ship in-game, plus actual ship-specific parts for her were being assembled dockside. The ship we have in-game, that’s a similar case, is Amagi, being that Gaijin modeled her off a 1919 Preliminary Design Study that wasn’t approved for construction

Aye, there’s a good chance it’ll be either her or Clem. As for Premium ships, I frankly have no idea how Gaijin plans to work that since there are no 7.3-7.7 candidates unless they do a repeat Dunkerque.

Didn’t they, in effect, assemble about 6% of the ship dockside

1 Like

Still not sure a out the Gascogne, tbh. Even if they chose an early draft, the Amagi had at least a hull until the Kanto earthquake.

Regarding a 7.3/7.7 French battleships, there is still the Normandie class. Granted, it’s the very limit of where it can be… it’s hardly comparable to a Sebastopol or a Gneisenau, but still.

I would like to see the 37mm turrets in there natural habitat. Too bad there development was so late.

You could say that about most French military tech at the time… lots of state of the art projects and prototypes snuffed out by the Armistice. either their development was too late, or the war came too early. Either way, the result was the same.

1 Like

It could just be cool to see. Since the snail did all the development for the 37 for that test ship we could see more of them in game as it would suck to waste such good models.

1 Like

Certainly. I was honestly surprised the Amien was added, it was the only way for us to get that turret. Still, the Clemenceau certainly would.benefit from it.

true, the Amien is just a good little boat at the end of the day similar to the some American boats.