Rework of aircraft ammunition and aircraft modules (work in progress)

The second time my aircraft ammunition rework topic was not approved.

To be fair I wasn’t really happy with it and wanted to close it anyway.

It takes like a whole day or two to write about everything in detail, so instead of wasting more time I decided to first write a thread on the forums and fill in the pieces one by one.

I’ll start with an overview and over the course of the next days, weeks or months, finish the it.

Let’s start with one of the many reasons why a rework is necenssay:
Inconsistencies (War Thunders bread and butter) and straight up non sense performance:

One example of inconsistencies is how shells deal different damage for no apparant reason:

20mm MG FF API (25mm pen) vs. 20mm ShVAK API (14mm pen)

Another is how different the result can be from the same round:

20mm HEI vs. Pilot

Next we move to non-sense performance of shells. From 20mm rounds failing to take out a pilot, with direct hits, deal any damage at all or realShatters absurd structural damage:

20mm Hispano Tracer vs. Pilot

20mm MG FF FI-T vs. Pilot

US 20mm Incendiary vs. Pilot

20mm MG 151/20 IT shell vs. Pilot

96g FI-T with 4.13g A-IX-2 (6.36g TNT) vs. B-29 vertical stabilizer

92g Mineshell 18.6g HA 41 (~30g TNT) vs. B-29 vertical stabilizer

I hope this paints a picture of why a re-work of aircraft ammunition is long overdue.

  • Shells performance vary wildly due to performance being hardcoded
  • Shells overperform or are straight up useless
  • Some mechanics are oversimplified and not realistic

So the first step in an ammunition re-work is going to be a Universal System, very similiar to the how the penetration calculator unified the performances based on the shell stats.

For that we just need the relevant data of the shells:

  • Weight
  • Velocity
  • Aerodyanamic properties
  • Shell Type
  • Explosive filler
  • Incendiary filler
  • Tracer filler
  • Tracer burn time
  • Self-destruct time
  • Fuze Type
  • Fuzing Properties

Most of that data is already implemented in the game but because a lot of the performance is hard-coded, a 12.7mm API with 1g of incendiary filler has the same or higher chance to cause fires as 20mm API or Incendiary rounds with 2-8g of incendiary filler.

Ammunition types and performance:

Ball ammunition (LMGs, HMGs):

MG Ball ammunition is the most common form of ammunition for MGs. It’s typically a jacketed hard-lead core, which gives the bullet weight, reducing speed loss, giving the round more range, particular for use on the ground.
For HMGs, Ball ammunition is often similiar to AP ammunition, but uses an unhardened steel core, reducing production cost.
Thus Ball has in general reduced armor penetration performance, but due to bullet tumbling after impact, which greatly reduces armor piercing performance of AP bullets, the difference might be a lot smaller than expected during air combat.
The engine is really the only component which could potentially receive more damage from AP ammunition than Ball.

7.92mm Ball bullet (12.8g compared to AP with 11.55g)

DE_7,92mm_sS_Ball

Practice shells (Cannon)

Practice rounds generally resemble explosive cannon shells, but are drilled out and hollow, to match their ballistic performance.
While, as the name implies, the rounds are used for practice purposes, like adjusting cannons and testing propeller synchronisation, they were also sometimes used in combat, generally as armor piercing substitute. Most armor found on aircraft can be penetrated by 20mm practice ammunition, simply by overmatching it, with flat noses aiding in the process. Thus the engine again becomes the only part of the aircraft which might receive more damage from AP rounds in comparison.
20mm Hispano Practice ammunition, for example, will outperform less powerfull cannons AP rounds when it comes to defeating 7-12mm armor plates found on planes, making the round quite viable for air combat, only losing in effectivens when targeting thicker armor on ground vehicles.

20mm Hispano Practice shell

GB_20mm_Practice

WW2 US Hispano ammunition production numbers. Practice shells (Ball) being produced the most

In the future I’ll talk in detail about the following:

  • Ammunition Types, their performance and implementation
    – Aerodynamics
    – Kinetic Rounds
    – Fragmentation damage
    – Blast damage
    – Incendiary performance
  • Damage to modules
6 Likes

The FI-T is doing too much damage, but honestly the Mineshell is fine in terms of damage. Generally the B-29 is (and all bombers, really, are) too weak.

realShatter made explosive shells deal too much structural damage.

In WT there is basically no need to ever use a caliber greater than 37mm, since even 37mm HE will one-shot a B-29s wing or tail in one hit.

This affects fighters in that way that getting hit by 20mm cannons is now equal of getting hit by 30mm cannons while for bomber it means they are structurally super vulnerable and any large anti-bomber weapon is now overkill.

No need to fire a 50mm Mineshell with 350g explosive when a lighter 45mm shell with 50g explosive has the same effect.

At the same time hitting any part that doesn’t make the aircraft lose the wing or tail is generally less effective than it should be, due to the lack of fragmentation.

However there’s also the issue with bomber defensive guns. A single .50cal hit from 500m deals around 25-33% of your engines health. So two .50cal bullets and your engine is practically toast, which is also not realistic.

Bombers should be able to take lots of punishment but fighters also shouldn’t be sniped out of the air in the blink of an eye.

1 Like

I wish that was what happened, in my experience (B-29 versus anything it faces) 0.50 cal bullets do virtually nothing

As someone mentioned in the bomber thread, the B-29 (and probably other bombers) suffers from paralax issues.
So depending on the range, you only have like 2 .50cals that can actually hit the enemy, considering your aim is good.

I think defensive guns have higher dispersion so hitting an engine reliably at 500m might be more difficult then expected, particular when dealing with fast incoming targets.

But based on the damage from protection analysis, as well as experience and youtube, if those .50cal find a fighters engines, they’ll generally destroy them in the blink of an eye.

It’s very similiar in low tier. A Ju-87 G-1 and G-2 are quite the menance at low tier because their dual MG 81 spits out 7.92mm AP at 3200 RPM.

Enemy guns have difficulty dealing damage to the Ju-87s gunner (there appears to be some dural armor that isn’t shown in protection analysis).

Ju-87 Gunner damaged from LMG AP

While direct hits to an engine, even at 500m, deal a considerable junk of damage.

LMG AP damage against engine from 500m