Indeed. All we really need is a single truly GOOD mode. Really one such Full Combined Arms mode would theoretically work for all playable unit types, though some would probably struggle to interact much (like heavy bombers and submarines, the latter we know are coming eventually).
And, there is nobody saying that either must be stuck with those sort of objectives. Right now with the zero-sum objective structure the mode has, there is no reason for the snail to bother improving either when the two conditions rarely are what win matches.
Unfortunately, this evades those who have no interest in understanding. Fleshing out the current air RB to facilitate the aircraft intended to engage with it appropriately would be a significant improvement for everyone involved. If they want a dogfight mode, they can make a suggestion for it, but the majority of people would be quite content with the PvPvE mode being expanded upon. Air to Air interested people would have more options opened to them to engage foes, and air to ground interested souls would have better targets to act upon. Hell, multirole interested folk would finally have reason to run a multirole payload.
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Effortful gameplay, in a custom match.
Really.
Everyone else has a role in real ARB but Bombers should mastur[REDACTED] in custom match.
Marvellous Idea mate
Next year’s Nobel Prize is guaranteed.
:/
Exactly. Literally everyone benefits as soon as we stop yelling at each other.
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Issue is, the particular souls moaning in opposition to this don’t want to hear it. You can not yell at folk, but they’ll just keep trying to split it into “We want separate modes for some weird reason”.
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you said you dont want RP for it
The sad point is
At this rate
We can’t stop yelling at each other
And Bomber will be banned from ARB
Because it is worthless
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“Exaggeration is a language feature…”
Apparently much like improving the game, hyperbole evades you.
I never knew that you understood it in ‘that way’
:/
Surely by now you’d have learnt that if your hyperbole can be taken out of context to be forced into a different position, it will be on this forum.
This place is blighted.
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To quote one of the Star Wars New Jedi Order novels:
“Arguing with fanatics only makes them more fanatic.”
Some people will never understand, because they have made up their minds on what they deem “good” and “evil.” It is a waste of time interacting with such folk.
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Shaming them does wonders though, and unfortunately, if you don’t address them they’ll keep putting words in your mouth. As evidenced by literally every thread mentioning something underperforming for Sweden, Britain, or France. This forum does not have the high brow souls open to sound discourse that you would hope.
Would be nice if it did, but alas.
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Playing a fighter can’t be a solution for the worthlessness of the bomber.
It is somewhat like that
You ordered PizzaExpress, but got Domino’s instead.
:/
And if nobody cares if you go and shame someone, then it only gets you riled up and leads to you shooting your mouth off. Then you, not your target(s), get called out instead.
Literally all you can do is ignore them, and maybe calmly refute their BS.
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Actually i have a certain level of understanding for your way of thinking.
I watched dozens of replays in which whole teams with Mach 2 capable jets wasted their potential with base bombing - and since this year i see even non-US props like 109s or I-185s (sometimes even premium Ki-43s) base bombing with incendiary or iron bombs.
May 2020 (respawning bases) was gaijin’s answer to face the challenges of the rapid growth of vehicles especially thx to their decision to add Mach 2 jets and the masses of shooter driven minors flooding the game.
In other words: Gaijin sacrificed the mode Air RB in order to facilitate the needs of rookies using aircraft in gaijin’s main mode Ground RB. Giving incentives like 3 times the RP amount for a base kill compared to a player kill is just another indicator that PvE game play is in gaijin’s interest.
But imho you missed some things:
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By tricking rookie or Ground RB players into Air RB with this bombing of respawning bases nonsense they added more or less free kills for fighter purists - in other words the have a symbiotic relationship.
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The idea behind offering a game play which requires zero skill to progress is a direct result of the extraordinary growth of the player base which is trapped in the eternal grind for top tier jets, so the downfall of Air RB was fully intended as gaijin needed a cheap grinding tool and added respawning bases.
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Nobody denies your freedom of choice of how you want to play wt - but you might acknowledge that other people have other intentions when they play Air RB.
This is nonsense - from 2 angles:
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The whole idea of aerial warfare is to support own troops (aka as “boots on the ground”) by covering them from aerial threats whilst destroying enemy resources (tactical and strategic targets) which allow enemy ground troops to reinforce or just to continue defending their territory. Without bombers there is no need for a fighter.
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The setup of Realistic Battles includes either capturing ground or defending own troops by killing enemy troops. The role of bases were implemented as tactical targets and the enemy airfield as strategic target. Even today gaijin states this on their website (FAQ):
Realistic Battles and Simulator Battles, on the other hand, are tailored to those who wish for maximum historical accuracy. All three modes see players fighting each other in team battles while completing objectives that include capturing and holding special points or destroying/defending designated targets.
From my pov any pilot using mouse aim in Air RB should be aware of that the zero skill claim works both ways. The instructor flies the aircraft and the (fighter) player has to use his mouse to aim and click…
…and the 4.0 ITP with its 37 mm - from 1.7 km…
Years ago you could kill bridges and got the kill rewards for all vehicles passing that bridge - and out of nowhere you get just the small RP reward for the bridge kill and the destroyed vehicles on it give you zero rewards.
You find such a bridge on the old Korea map (around 5.0 BR) - stay alive and and kill the bridge to verify this.
Yes and no - i do agree that manual gunner control is mandatory - but at least in Air RB gaijin has added an artificial bullet/shell spread at the end of 2022.
The only bombers still able to kill you at 1.5 to 2 km are the Pe-8 and the G8N1.
As i play currently below 5.0 i had not the pleasure to meet the Chinese Be-6 version, but bombers (thx to the absence of game impact) are usually targets for late/very late game. We will see how it goes, but the Be-6 was always a rather nasty target. The Tu-4 is way above WW 2 BRs, so i don’t play there.
See above - i enjoyed flying the G8N1 and attack Pe-8s just from 12 o’clock high, they are extremely dangerous when you not extend in a dive.
Correct👍
Yes - as they did irl when attacked in broad daylight. Even if the British bombers would be from the USSR - even gaijin can’t compensate their conceptual disadvantages.
On the other hand - i run every few months into lobbies with this totally insane Lincoln pilot - way more than 5.000 kills in it - and you will get the pure bomber version of the Mosquito.
You forgot the 2.3 MiG-3s with airspawn , the guys in the Potez 630/33s and the Yak-2 KABB clowns. Even a plain LaGG-3 (at 2.0) or a MS 406 kills any bomber extremely easy.
Very interesting thread 👍
I summarized my thoughts about the upcoming changes here:
As the post is part of the Dev server communication it might be read by a dev…
6 Likes
Yeah, while there are some situations where ordinance is useful on even props like these, base bombing most certainly is NOT usually one of them. About the only rare case is if tickets are already down to the wire and there’s a mostly-dead bombing point which would win the game if killed, and all the remaining ground units are too thorny or well-defended to reach and strike successfully.
I knew the numbers were skewed, but good lord… It’s that bad?! It’s the same as the whole “Ersatz TD vs AA Duty” debate about SPAAG all over again…
Free kills do make grinding easier, but once you’ve played this game for enough years, the feeling of grinding gets kinda “yeah, whatever.” At least that’s how its become with me - my interest in jets is limited to WW2-ish ones as the underlying core gameplay mechanics become fully broken with all the advanced weapons present on jets higher in BR than about 8.0 tops.
Sounds like the game badly needs something other than grind as its motivation for the average player. Unfortunately, I doubt such motivation will ever be realized until the game’s official servers eventually die and it gets rebooted on private servers like happened with several other MMOs in the past decade & a half.
Agree 100%. There is nothing wrong with enjoying dogfights - I do too sometimes. I just read lots in history books and yearn for gameplay where there’s something else to go do after the dogfight is concluded, which is how most real battles played out. Your comment below illustrates this point perfectly:
Now snail’s claim on the other hand is frankly no longer fully true, but like a lot of gritty details in the game, has been forgotten and needs updating.
Real battles do not end the moment air superiority is achieved. Rather, that is just the beginning.
Air RB’s core problem in my eyes is this disconnect - air superiority is the objective instead of an enabler for the actual objective(s) like it usually was.
The only times air superiority was the sole objective was either in a purely defensive fashion (British side of Battle of Britain) or as a preemptive measure to clear the way for vulnerable craft (US fighter sweeps ahead of bomber formations).
Likewise - from what I gather folk like him simply enjoy a good dogfight and the ability to use various tactical maneuvers to outsmart other fighter aircraft. And there is nothing wrong with this, either.
Players like him deserve to be included in the discussion on how to truly improve Air RB, so long as they don’t seek to disenfranchise players who have different goals or preferences. Hatred is the most useless emotion known to man, and it’s clear he harbors quite a lot of hatred towards players using nonfighters and doubly so players using CAS loadouts on fighters. And it’s only burning him up inside, while never reaching the people he claims to hate.
And in cases of discussion on specifically fighter vs fighter balancing, people like him are THE source we should turn to in many cases, due to sheer accumulated experience.
By altering surprisingly little about the foundational architecture of the game mode, there can in fact be room made for all these types of people without one group existing automatically stepping on the others.
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British bombers held the advantage in payload capacity. Which is unfortunately punished in this game, so Gaijin could easily account for the disadvantages in defensive armament by putting it British bombers at BRs where the defensive armament is at least passable, or they could stop punishing bombers for incredibly heavy payloads by decreasing the reward for successful sorties when using those heavy payloads.
I think that was moreso because of the endless amount of complaining from the fighter TDM community
2 Likes
The complaints were the reason for the changes, yes
But the complaints themselves don’t change the game