Responding to the Severe Damage feedback & release time

[_Poul]

@sardinha08

I’m starting to feel sorry about _Poul, he explained this change so many times with so much detail, even with proper in game testing, and still I keep seeing players insisting on their misunderstanding of the change.

@sardinha08

In a short period of time you start to recognize a few of the names.

I’m sure now this guy is just trolling. He doesn’t even read anything, he just wants to attract attention. Of course, I’ve seen people like this a lot in the past on various forums. I suspect their problem is that no one cares about them in real life, so they desperately need someone to talk to them. And the easiest way that doesn’t require a high level of IQ is to start trolling. I had a feeling he might be trolling, especially so many people above me ignored this guy completely. I just realised this too late, like you said, I don’t have enough forum experience.

@Wishie7119

Since this recent update i am getting 1 hit notification in head-os, then i look bsck and see smoke coming out of the enemy, then some moments later they die. Funny things are happening, but gaijin being gaijin dont tell us eveything in updates especially stealth nerfs

I don’t fully understand how the engine damage works. It’s definitely something that the devs touched between both systems. In the old system the only way to get a kill from an engine damage was by fire. And I never understood the rules we had here.

For example, the first old battle I checked had the situation, where I damaged the enemy engine (that damage started the fire) and the guy just instantly turned into destroyed, even though his pilot was still alive, I only damaged his engine:

Spoiler

Spoiler

You can look at this situation on this video (check 6:47):

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/hoy20PtqV_A?list=PLZSTdaNsWtv7ZDZspcZ4xdyYJSnnE7LlB&t=407

So you could get a kill through the engine damage in the past. It just required the fire. Right now you don’t need the fire anymore.

But I still see strange situations in the new system, for example, why wasn’t this counted as severe damage:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RomyEBCuxUQ

I definitely destroyed his engine in this situation, it even says so on the right bottom part of the screen. But I only received a critical hit and an assist. This new system should give me a severe damage in this situation, but it didn’t.

I don’t fully understand all this, but yeah, there are situations that are not clear. I would love if the devs explained this new mechanics in details, with examples. I would also like to finally hear an explanation why most critical hits were removed from Air battles.

[Cpt_Bel_V]

@_Poul_

I’m sure now […], I don’t have enough forum experience.

Sure,… not like i was saying this on my first post on this thread,…

@Cpt_Bel_V

The attacker side being rewarded is wrong, because:
→ the attacker recieved 80% of reward already
→ the attacker is not able to “confirm kill”, so unrealistic on how a kill is acredited in real life.
→ the defender might be able to land, and make his aircraft being repaired, alike the Israeli F-15D (loosing a wing) or the B-17 from Stigler’s story being completely torn off by bullets and shells, but still flown 600+km before landing

→ i suggest Gaijin change this, to not give the kill at the end of battle IF the defender is farther away than Within Visual Range (about

You guys just don’t understand that i have the right to have different POV than you, and call me a troll to makes me appears as a fool,…

You guys are not even trying to debate,… but makes others with different PoV to be condamned by your bullshit,… have your fun, it still shows you’re not willing to have a debate.

[_Poul]

@Noir89

the only thing i really dislike is the mechanic that is writing you off on the end of the battle. There should be a mechanic to prevent this, if you are still able to fly after being “severly damaged”.

For example, if you survive 45-60sec after being severly damaged (…), you cannot be written off.

So in your opinion if I keep spinning like that for 61 (or more) seconds, the person who damaged me shouldn’t be credited with the kill:

Spoiler

This is exactly the reason why the devs decided to kill all severely damaged planes at the end of the battle.

In the old system my plane would have been dead several times already. I’m only alive because the new severe damage mechanics replaced most old kill conditions. Previously, the guy who made such damage to me (almost whole my plane is black) would have already received a full kill credit and 100% score and rewards. In the new system he only got 80% of the score and rewards, but no kill credit (yet). My death is delayed with this new system.

If the devs didn’t kill my plane in this condition when the battle ends, you would see a lot of complains everywhere, because it would hurt many players. In my opinion crediting a player who caused this damage to me makes more sense than keeping me alive and denying that kill only thanks to this new severe damage mechanics. Keep in mind the new severe damage mechanics has only two kill conditions: killing the pilot or tearing off the tail. Every other damage can’t kill the plane anymore.

[Noir89]

No, the timelimit is only one of many possible solutions, and i agree that it may not be the best, but getting into a certain range of the airfield (~2km) before the game ends would solve that problem. I am just sick getting written off while landing or even while repairing - in that case the enemy player wasnt good enough to bring my aircraft down.

[_Poul]

@Noir89

No, the timelimit is only one of many possible solutions, and i agree that it may not be the best, but getting into a certain range of the airfield (~2km) before the game ends would solve that problem. I am just sick getting written off while landing or even while repairing (…)

I totally understand your point of view. The previous system had funny situations sometimes, where you could “die” and then still land and repair. It was possible the same way as severely damaged planes can now repair. In the old system that would be a kill credit for an attacker anyway, in the new system it’s not.

When I die due to severe damage, I look at this situation: “in the old system I would already be dead anyway, so I don’t really lose anything”. I see this new system as delayed death, so I’m never mad that I died because the battle ended.

@Noir89

(…) in that case the enemy player wasnt good enough to bring my aircraft down.

But he did enough to take you out of the combat. I guess it all depends how you look at things. In my opinion that person did enough to get a kill credit, but that’s just my opinion of course.

[sardinha08]

@Cpt_Bel_V

because guess what i didn’t agree with you all,…

It’s not cause you don’t agree with others, anyone is free to disagree, it’s cause you are doing the wrong comparison when you say that you prefer to receive 80% instead of 40%, when what you do for those 80% would give you 100%(plus the crit) before, and with that you are spreading misinformation about how this change works. If you just crit a target now, you’ll get the same assist in the end as before when someone else finishes it. The severe damage basically replaced those kills where the marker stayed grey for a few seconds, the difference is that now it stays red until it really dies. Maybe that is where your confusion comes from, seeing a red marker target that you shoot before getting killed gives you 80% of a kill instead of a kill assist, but in the “old” system that would be a kill with 100% score reward.

[Real_K_Soze]

@Wishie7119

I hit the map wall yesturday and got destroyed after being damaged diving on ju88, my plane was still flying, the biggiest damage to my plane was the missing rudder

This is nothing new - at least in Air RB if you refer to an Air RB match. As soon as your plane got critted you are unable to use the map border as you will be killed instantly and the kill will be assigned to the guy which produced the damage.

[Real_K_Soze]

@_Poul_

So in your opinion if I keep spinning like that for 61 (or more) seconds, the person who damaged me shouldn’t be credited with the kill:

Spoiler

This is exactly the reason why the devs decided to kill all severely damaged planes at the end of the battle.

I mean your argument makes sense from your pov - especially in such cases - but from my perspective you might acknowledge that there are a lot of grey areas by looking at this point.

This declaring as death is simply not considering that there are cases which debunk this function as pure nonsense.

In Air RB it happens frequently that you play 1 vs 1 as last players of both teams. No matter if you intercept a high bomber (or being the bomber itself) - you might take calculated risks. So if i kill the last guy i won the match, it doesn’t matter if my only engine was shot out in this process.

Same as landing with a dead engine - experienced pilots are able to nurse their planes back to an airfield - it makes zero sense to declare them as dead.

[Wishie7119]

Its a first for me

[Real_K_Soze]

@_Poul_

I don’t fully understand how the engine damage works. It’s definitely something that the devs touched between both systems. I

i do agree - after several thousand matches in both B7A2 variants i noticed an increase of dead engines in them - no fire, oil or water, just dead.

I mean a main advantage of radial engines was the durability and damage resistance compared to inline engines.

And i also noticed strange situations (twin or multi engine enemies on fire for 6 minutes an even more) and a very high rate of engine fires 3-4 weeks ago - but they produced no instant damage. I managed several times to land and repair on the forward airfield whilst my plane was burning like hell - but this disappeared and now i deal with dead engines:-)

[_Poul]

@Uncle_J_Wick

I mean your argument makes sense from your pov - especially in such cases - but from my perspective you might acknowledge that there are a lot of grey areas by looking at this point.

This declaring as death is simply not considering that there are cases which debunk this function as pure nonsense.

In Air RB it happens frequently that you play 1 vs 1 as last players of both teams. No matter if you intercept a high bomber (or being the bomber itself) - you might take calculated risks. So if i kill the last guy i won the match, it doesn’t matter if my only engine was shot out in this process.

Same as landing with a dead engine - experienced pilots are able to nurse their planes back to an airfield - it makes zero sense to declare them as dead.

But in my opinion the old system of plane destruction made much more sense than the new severe damage one.

I’m pretty sure that the engine damage and horizontal stabilizers were added to severe damage just to calm Russian players who were not happy when the devs introduced the severe damage mechanic at the beginning.

There is a very good reason why the previous system worked how it worked. And it worked like that for years, right? I’m not saying the old system didn’t have any issues, but in my opinion the new system creates many more issues than it solves.

There is no easy way to fix these issues. There will always be someone unhappy, saying “but this doesn’t make sense”, I totally get it. Some choices right now are between a bad option and an even worse option. You can’t really completely solve these issues created by the new system. And this is why I don’t like the new system. It’s very complicated, it creates silly situations, it gives us less rewards, it gives us much less score, and the only good thing about it is that partial frag. But the question is, do we really need that partial frag? I mean, it will help with kill-based tasks and challenges, but at the same time it will make assist-based tasks and challenges harder. And what about critical hits, we still don’t know if that’s the part of the new system or just a bug. I don’t really see many good things about this new system.

[Real_K_Soze]

@_Poul_

But in my opinion the old system of plane destruction made much more sense than the new severe damage one.

We have a common understanding about almost everything, so it doesn’t matter if we have deviating views on the topic “declared as dead” when the game is over.

Regarding this thread:

You might agree that it makes no sense trying to enlighten people regarding their misconceptions if they refuse to take the red pill. So from a holistic pov there is no need to invest more time on this topic if the RU forum is the decisive factor in all relevant aspects.

Just look a this thread and the parallel “no kill steal fix” thread. Even if all facts and common sense says A - some guys insist on B. Discussing with people using feelings or defending non-fact based opinions is futile.

Have a good one!

[warrior412]

@Uncle_J_Wick

i do agree - after several thousand matches in both B7A2 variants i noticed an increase of dead engines in them - no fire, oil or water, just dead.

I mean a main advantage of radial engines was the durability and damage resistance compared to inline engines.

In a match earlier tonight, a burst of 12.7mm MG fire shot out my P-47’s engine instantly.

No reduction in power as the engine dies slowly, no fire, just dead instantly.

For the record, in the same match I also put a 76mm APHE shell through a low flying aircraft and he didn’t even notice it…so damage modeling is utterly bogus right now.

“Severe Damage” needs major tweaks or a reversion. Alternatively, Gaijin could compensate vehicles for the durability they should have but lack with BR reductions…that’s a fair means to balance.

[Real_K_Soze]

@warrior412

“Severe Damage” needs major tweaks or a reversion. Alternatively, Gaijin could compensate vehicles for the durability they should have but lack with BR reductions…that’s a fair means to balance.

I am not sure if you had the chance to follow other threads dealing with “Severe damage” and related side effects - but imho the circumstantial evidence (like reducing numbers of crits for tasks) make any hopes for a reversal highly unlikely - imho your chances to get hit by meteor are way higher.

[warrior412]

I have no kept close track of this topic or others on this matter–but that tracks with Gaijin’s standard operating procedure.

Once something goes in, changing anything fundamental about it thereafter is like pulling teeth. (This why new proposals need to be well framed from the start.)

[Lovely_Leopard]

Why severe damage counts a kill (even if finished by teammate) but it is not recorded into player’s profile stats (when finished by teammate) ?

[Wishie7119]

Both parties should get kill in service record in my book, who is to say who deserves it

[_Poul]

@Lovely_Leopard

Why severe damage counts a kill (even if finished by teammate) but it is not recorded into player’s profile stats (when finished by teammate) ?

I’ll just quote myself, because there is no sense to write all this again:

@_Poul_

I personally don’t care about that. But if someone cares about service record, the kill credit situation changed between both systems.

• in the old system, the person who caused “severe damage” had +1 kill in their service record
• in the new system, the person who finished the target gets +1 kill in their service record

So technically, you can now talk about “stealing” kills from the stats (service records) point of view.

If the devs credited both players in service records, it would break them (2:1 K:D from one death), and these stats are later used to balance vehicles. So it makes sense they decided not to credit both players in their service records. It’s just a question should they credit the first guy (who caused a severe damage, like it used to be in the old system) or the second guy (who finished the target). I personally prefer the old system (because the fist guy did most of the job), but they chose the second guy. But like I said, I don’t care about service records anyway, so for me it doesn’t really matter.

[Wishie7119]

I dont believe It would break the service record because eveything would be getting more kills. I also dont believe gaijin do follow the K/D of vehicles for everything and there are many examples that you probably know of due to compression also vehicles that are at a position because of there roll and not k/d

[_Poul]

@Wishie7119

I dont believe It would break the service record because eveything would be getting more kills.

The problem is, we don’t live in ideal world. Statistically, that would be the case only if every plane had the same flight performance, the same guns and every plane was played by the same number of players.

But of course it’s not the case. If let’s say 60% of the team use PlaneA, just imagine how would different number of kills from one enemy death affect the K:D of this specific plane when compared to other planes.

That would be a huge problem, and before I tested this new mechanics I actually feared they are going to break stats this way and that would have a very serious consequences. Fortunately, they figured this out and kept 1:1 K:D from each death, which is a good thing on a global scale.

@Wishie7119

I also dont believe gaijin do follow the K/D of vehicles for everything and there are many examples that you probably know of due to compression also vehicles that are at a position because of there roll and not k/d

Not long ago the devs replied in one of the Q&A (if I remember correctly) that they decided to raise the BR of many French vehicles only because in the top10 K:D vehicles 7 of them were French.

I’m sure they also take other factors into consideration, but there is no doubt that K:D is a very important part of balancing in the game.