that has absolutely nothing to do with it. its not a part of the argument, you are changing the premise again.
is it or is it not bigger, that is the ENTIRE argument. nothing more, nothing less.
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Me this entire time: “The front turret area of T-80BVM has identical weakspots to M1A1 HC.”
My statement remains the same.
You added more examples which I didn’t complain about; I however changed nothing.
Guess wrong? The burden of proof is on you. How about you provide a source to your claim other than “im right and you are not”. Until you do that, all you are doing is posting unsubstantiated claims.
I doubt you even have a source other than “nuh-uh just believe me, i know and you don’t”.
no. you did not say front.
so don’t even try to put any blame on me for this.
i have ZERO issues with my reading ability. but you seem to have that very often.
Edit:
also, name ONE time i added information or arguments unprompted. just ONE.
Edit 2:
you changed it from “area of weak spots” to :
(percentage of total tank that is weak spots)
and:
(back to area)
and:
(angle is wrong)
and:
(number of weakspots)
and:
(amount of armor)
and:
(suddenly talking about only turret)
and:
(its an illusion)
and:
(back to area again)
and:
(only if you count areas with vital parts behind them)
so who is changing the argument here really?
5 Likes
I guess you missed the part where I am a former M1 turret mechanic IRL? Which means I am intimately familiar with the insides of an M1 tank? No I’m not posting a copy of my 214.
As far as a source, keep reading the thread for the rest of the discussion you are ignorant of.
And you make another unsubstantiated claim to go along with your first.
“Just trust me bro i work on the abrams irl”
He is trying to change reality so that russia is actually the underdog in this game, and everyone who disagrees with his absolutely insane takes is just ruski troll…
Dude is actually delusional.
This has been addresses already if you’ve fukin’ read and use your brain.
If it’s mandatory and unskippable, sure. However I cannot think of a single example of that that isn’t just functionally “the price of the game” which is not SUPPOSED to be fun. It’s supposed to make money.
Saying that repair costs aren’t fun and implying that the only reason they exist is because Gaijin didn’t get feedback from their users, is equally as ridiculous as saying that “The people who own this Italian restaurant are idiots, because it was a very pleasant dinner right up until the part at the very end where I had to give them MONEY for my food?! That wasn’t fun at all! Why didn’t they ask for my feedback on whether I wanted to give them money or not?! 1 Stars.”
That said, they have plenty of data on repair cost opinions anyway, so that example isn’t even a valid example of “data that they don’t have feedback for” (even if it would have been reasonable if it was). For example:
-
The Grant 1 has an 857 SL repair cost in AB
-
The M3 Lee has a 536 SL repair cost in AB.
Do people play differently or more cautiously with the two? Do they for example leave that lineup alone and play other nations or log off more after a match dying in the Grant than in the Lee? Do they spend more crew points on the Grant’s crew on auto repair speed? Etc. If not, then continue on and look at similar comparison tests between Pz IVs. Or between different Tigers. And so on up in BR, bigger and bigger SL differences.
Pretty easy to measure, actually.
it took an outside-the-game (I’m sure there’s a better term for it) incident,
Prices USUALLY require outside the game data to know to raise or lower them. That is 100% normal and typical. You think Ubisoft decided to price each new Assassin’s Creed based on in game data or play testing data from earlier ones? No, it’s based on outside-the-game sales…
If you just ask people if they want lower prices (which indirectly includes stuff like repair costs closely tied to the monetization of the game), obviously they will ALWAYS say yes, all the way down to $0. So that’s a pretty useless thing to poll.
You usually have to measure non verbal answers that cannot be faked, like people deciding not to buy as much stuff, playing less, etc., to know if your price is too high in any normal situation.
How do you feel about the performance of these vehicles?
Why on earth would you ever care how people feel about performance, when performance data is objective?
“We already have perfect, correct, true data, but why don’t you give us your vague, fallible opinion on it that we already know is right or wrong, so that we can logically immediately ignore it and use the 100% true measurement instead?” …Why? Kind of just disrespectfully wasting players’ time, in my opinion.
This is like measuring your couch and your doorway with a yardstick, then pointlessly asking your friend if she thinks it will fit through, and if she’s wrong, just saying “Wrong” and going ahead based on the yardstick anyway. What was the point? Other than to be rude/piss her off, if anything, not make her happier?
1 Like
Do people rly argue about pen of t90m when u won’t do anything if u pen it anyway? did everyone get Russian tanks amnesia or something? even if u pen, especially with anti spall shield, you won’t be able to do anything if not hit precisely on 2 crew members, and even then it’s not 100% guaranteed kill, right now bvm is like a Russian roulette with a chance to max kill 1 crew member or not deal enough dmg to even kill 1, and they add anti spall on top of Russian broken mbt models, if this tank goes as it is to live server, the top tier would be a joke, and its not like its ok right now too, joke will grow bigger and bigger
1 Like
How long did it take to install the spall liner of an Abrams?
@Kanelikainalo
You defend Russia then accuse others of insulting accusations…
It seems that Gaijin doesn’t care about the meta, competitiveness, and balance. Favoring Russia by adding spall lining only to the T90 makes no sense at all. It must be because of the player base, right? People prefer OP things over balanced ones. The Chally 3, in particular, is terrible. If they’re going to introduce an OP tank like the Russian one, at least a balanced tank should come along, such as the Chally 3 130mm with a new turret. This Chally 3 130mm would compensate for the fact that the United Kingdom, a NATO nation, doesn’t get a jet and instead receives a boat that few will use, once again leaving this nation out of the meta. It’s a shame that the Challengers 2 are underestimated; they are among the most aesthetically pleasing tanks in the game. Similarly, the Merkava 4M, at least, has decent mobility. I really want to understand why the most visually appealing tanks are terrible in every aspect compared to those of larger nations.
1 Like
He was just responding to another on why US got HMDs when they didn’t typically care them. Basically to your last point of making planes balanced.
I think the majority of people do NOT have a problem with new mechanics in the game, but the DO HAVE a problem with that mechanic being added to a singlular nation only.
This has been done in the past and still echoes through the higher tiers, like the Pantsir as crown jewel of SPAA while other nations don’t even have a top line SPAA with Radar.
So please add the spall liner to the game, but when you do it, then add it to all the tanks that have it and not just a singular tank in a very specific nation.
5 Likes
Phew… what a crisis has been unfolding. This is truly saddening me - as part of the game industry, seeing this happen again hurts. The fact that this technical moderator has this violent impact on his life for earning no compensation for… is insane.
What I am surprised by is that Gaijin’s shitstorm radar seems to be in the void again. Having been with the game and just in the industry for a while now… this catalyst of rage about the T-90M getting a spall liner… really had to be expected, hadn’t it? After the community outburtst in the summer, it was evident that WTs players are very, very tensed up about the Game and its policies and about the companys procedure to add things. In this context it has to be understood that the roadmap is not a feature to cool things down - it is a necessity. A necessity to finally acknowledge the shortcomings and possibly intentionally predatory mechanics of War Thunder. This case here shows that we need another roadmap and continued quality of life improvements, as things are not fine after this iteration of improvements due to the summer revolution ends.
So… adding the T-90M with a spall liner. A thing that the Challenger fans have been crying about for years and that they were told can’t be implemented appears on a soviet tank now, even though it is a very common part of western tank design since the late 70s. A community reaction like what we’ve seen here is not only very likely in this case - it is ensured. It is exactly working on the basis of shitstorm mechanics (a simple problem gets blown out of proportion and a mass of people rolls with it) and was ensured after the T-90M went live on the dev with a spall liner and not at least some western tank designs having one at the same time. If anyone at Gaijin is surprised, they have to revamp their entire understanding of the community again.
The fault here lies not in the techincal moderator, but the lack of standardisation from a developer team that should understand the intensity in community reactions after 11 years. Publishing the T-90M with the spall liner while western tanks didn’t get it, is the issue the community had. And unfortunately this volunteering person became the victim. As a good company, it would be on behalf of Gaijin now to aid this member and support him with everything he has to do to regulate the chaos of being doxed.
And Gaijin needs to create a heatmap of topics in the community that they need to finally create some standards for. The spall liner issue is a matter since the first Challenger arrived. This issue - untreated as it was - grew over the time as the western fans of the community wanted to know if they would finally get spall liners on their vehicles - as they blew up more reliably than T-series tanks a lot of the time. And now exactly a T series tank gets this feature. It is a three year issue that has been waiting for an answer. It is not surprising how much frustration has been built up over this time and how violently this lashes out now. However, it can not EVER justify any act of violence or harm - like doxing.
The proper way to have treated this was to have all spall liners ready for each western tank and then give the T-90M one with them. The current solution is not suitable for properly cooling things down as only a few vehicles will get a spall liner an the rest of the community remains on fire and in a revolutionary mood. Because it is a feature that will impact gameplay to a significant extend.
14 Likes
Dont waste time on this guy , he is 100% russian troll from some gulag in syberia paid by the party.
2 Likes
Exactly. This was entirely predictable really. It’s an unforced error.
Personally, I think they should remove spall liners from the t-90m for the time being, it would be the same as the game is now then, nothing lost.
The spall liners are way too impactful to rush to add them. They will have significant balancing impacts from mid-ish tier upwards which needs to be addressed before their introduction. There is also vehicle research to be done for additional vehicles, adding the liner to the chosen few etc.
It’s too much to do in a release just before Christmas.
Pull them, do them properly in a few months.
3 Likes
Dev server is not really functional at all, why:
- Even with 5x SL & RP, grinding the entire newly added line, good luck if you have a job;
- CC get near infinite cash and GE to unlock everything, the plebs need to grind, in the limited uptime;
- Low tier vehicles can’t be effectively played, because automatic 10.3 vehicles added to line up;
- most are bots, everybody and their dog is grinding USSR tree to get the NEW FotM ASAP;
Combining these facts, bots for some reason are all WW2 even when trying out 9.3 > BR, they give very little RP even with 5x multiplier. And when you want to try the lower range of new vehicles you’re thrown into the very least in 10.3 BR matches.
this update to a lesser degree, since most newly added things are top-tier, but when the Hungarian sub-tree was added you needed to start at the bottom or GE your way up.
This kind of testing resulted in the PUMA being added low, since the survivability of this vehicle wasn’t very apparent when facing 10.3 MBT’s or better.
How can you test stuff if not against the normal range of vehicles it would face in a +/- 1BR MM?
my 2c:
- Give everyone acces to all the newly added vehicles, what’s the reason for needing to grind to unlock and spade the damn thing?;
- if everything is unlocked, make BR brackets available in which to test the new vehicles so they face the correct enemies;
- rotate these brackets throughout the test period, when the Dev server is open;
- If not possible or simply don’t want to, make the Bots of the correct BR, so you earn according to your vehicles BR;
3 Likes
Agreed, I never bother with the dev server since you don’t get access to all the vehicles and have to grind to test the vehicles, calling it a joke doesn’t even do justice to how insane that situation is, and then whenever you find an issue with the game you just get told it’s not final so why are we wasting time with it?
honestly i found that it was rather easy to grind, but i also used the points from bp to get lots of boosters and spam them and reached bp lvl 500 ( i don’t know how that is possible but ye)