It’s effective against aircraft in the BR range as well don’t get it twisted, but if there are any clouds or god forbid fog it becomes borderline unusable. The problem is people being in the targeting pod view while firing off AGM’s without even caring to look if there’s a missile coming since “I’m not getting an RWR ping so I must be safe!” or flaring once whilst continuing to fly in a straight line.
You want to know how easy it is to defeat this missile? Literally you can fly towards the ground and pull up at the last minute and the missile will just crash right into the ground. Or even easier, pay attention and flare the missile while actually doing evasive maneuvers
No, The A-7D had to get very much within Type 81C range because the Mavs are quite trash. Russia benefits the most because the CAS spam is most prevalent with them.
Iirc the lowest Frogfoots are 10.3 in GRB, though frankly they ought to be 10.7 with those S-250s.
I’m gonna agree to disagree with you on the Russian Bias matter, but we all know very well of Gaijin’s massive and malicious incompetence.
I did not say all data. If Gaijin is just balancing off player statistics, then thats what needs to be available. If you go back and reread what I said, I called for player efficiency number to be made publicly. This can easily be displayed via a percentage. And your argument actually supports my point. Why are they played less? Did Gaijin over or under correct something? Transparency is a win here.
But they aren’t here. Said frustration exists beyond this singular thread and War Thunder is chock full of balancing issues. Why hasn’t Gaijin addressed thr Pantsir balance? How many times does the player base have to bring it up before it finally gets addressed? Look at the divisiveness that came from the APHE rework? Gaijin was about to push through a test 52% of the respondent player base was against. Sure, they decided to not go through with it at the end, but it took a sizable portion of backlash to get to it. And Gaijin lost a sizable portion of trust doing so.
So no, there isnt enough of this “players are trusting” Gaijin. Especially not with BR changes. Hell, they got a sizable portion of players against the AMX-40 increase and their response was to screw over another vehicle with a half-hearted “heres a better round that we don’t know if it will improve the vehicle’s effectiveness”.
Going high with Brimstones against SPAA only works against bots or people that are busy shooting something else.
Eh, that’s a bit of a stretch. The Type 81s missiles are a good chunk better, but obviously the thing is still at too high a BR judged by its objective capability.
The Brimstone on the Typhoon is the go to weapon to knock out the Pantsir in squadronbattles. The KH-38 is not used by anyone competent there. The advantage of it, and other IIR guided weaponry, is being idiot proof (and being able to engage multiple targets at once, and allowing you to more effectively deal with other things immediately after firing).
I didn’t say anything about the ADATS? I said that the Brimstone works very well for people that know what they’re doing, even against the best SPAA you can face.Top tier balancing obviously involves far more than isolated SPAA vs plane fights.
Either way, I just found it funny that you’re switching between wanting to judge vehicles by the performance they can achieve when used by someoen competent (Type 81 vs more capable radar SPAAs) and then discount the capabilities of an incredibly potent CAS weapon because making it work requires the user to do more than pressing lock and fire.
It’s already been done before with one jet.
They balance the vehicles by income you make, which basically come from kills, assists, caps etc., so a bunch of really good people playing some forgotten vehicle no one plays anymore will definitely increase the perceived efficiency of said vehicle, thus making Gaijin to move it up.
Quote me where they’ve said that.
If a given vehicle has like 2k battles per month and now all of a sudden it gets 5-6k with highly increased efficiency, I’m sure it’d make Gaijin interested in that particular vehicle.
Mate you need to realize this forum is just a very small part of our total player base, but I guess that’s too hard for you to wrap your head around.
Same goes for reddit so you better find me a better argument but I know you can’t.
Really insane for me is that this company seems to think the solution is most often less transparency. Even small gains in transparency need to be celebrated like they’re some massive achievement and not simply the rolling back of absurd counterproductive regressive policy.
Actually, radical transparency is the solution more times than too much transparency is ever the problem and solves most of the issues Gaijin tries to solve by reducing transparency.
They were so quick to abandon the roadmaps. God forbid players be able to hold developers to promised improvements. But that is just it. Gaijin doesn’t want to do such a thing.
I targeted close to the Pantsirs position and fired all Brimstones I had then ducked into cover, with the intention of popping up and lasing them when they got close, but ALL were shot down before they even got that far.
Is that a skill issue? , is that user error? or is that the fact that Brismtone 1s are barely a 10.0 worthy weapon and there is no excuse for having Brimstone 1s on the Typhoon. Quite Frankly, given the KH-38MT there is little excuse why we cant have 6x FnF Brimstone 2s. But alas, Soviets have skill issues.
I couldnt go high because of cloud coverage but dropping PW4s from 50k feet is far easier in GSB than trying to do the awkward control dance between HOTAS and M&K to guide Brimstones, especially given they need to be fired well within range of a Pantsir to ever have a chance of hitting.
So I WAS hugging the deck, at about 300ft, hiding behind hills. All Brimstones were still intercepted before they even got close to the target. I was planning on landing, swaping from my usual 6x Brimstone + 6x PW4 loadout to an 18x Brismtone loadout, but I couldnt land because the 3x Pantsirs were in range and in LoS of the AF on that map and so I crashed trying to simutaneously defend against 3x Pantsirs and land at the same time in SB.
Perhaps, but in terms of range and usage, almost identical. There is little justification for it to be 11.7.
I still do not understand why this is justification for why the Typhoon must have 2 MASSIVE A2G nerfs, but the SU-30 and Su-34 have fictional weapons.
And just because you can spam 18x Brimstones at a Pantsir that even it cannot defend against, doesnt mean that the Brimstones are good. Im sure if the F-15E got GPS+SAL GBU-53s it would instantly become the meta in that regard.
But it is relevant. If Typhoon with MASSIVE nerfs is considered balanced becuase it can kill a Pantsir then the fact the SU-39 can kill an ADATS with a Vikhrs just as easily must mean that the Su-39 and Typhoon are equal right? Because ADATS and Pantsir are practically the same BR.
Then what are you complaing about then?
Type 81 moving up because Japanse mains are good and player stats says that its too good, but Pantsir remaining at 12.0 because soviet mains are bad and players stats says its bad, is just stupid and illogical.
Player stats should only be looked at when common sense or objective facts cant decide.
Dumping all data gives you much better insight of what’s going on with vehicles, as having slightly above average efficiency on a vehicle with 50k battles and only 2k is vastly different.
Maybe they are in a black hole of a BR ?
Maybe you have something better for it’s BR under/above it so said vehicle gets neglected ?
You will never achieve full transparency as they can still alter the data before publishing it for your eyes to see. If you don’t trust this system you also won’t be trusting that one, because as I said, you still won’t know if data they’ve shown you is truly real.
Only way to truly know for sure is for them to give full access to their servers, which we all know isn’t happening.
People come here to complain, so if the situation was indeed that unbearable I’m sure more and more people would be coming here.
By sizeable you mean 20-30 forumites out of thousands of players, lol.
I was optimistic about an era where Gaijin would take routine steps forward to resolve popular and oft raised issues, especially longstanding problems, whilst doing very basic community management behaviours of explaining things, nearly genuinely (economy change conspicuously did anything but directly address RP gain) address community concerns.
But as you say, the effort was largely dropped in exchange for more or less business as usually.
I think many forget this, but by industry standards Gaijin is incredibly cagey and circumspect about anything.
It is completely normal for game developers to discuss work in progress features and give regular updates on how this is going. Even small teams do this. You don’t see them sulking because people could get upset and claim the developers lied.
I don’t envy Gaijin’s position of having lost so much community goodwill, but less transparency is never the solution to loss of goodwill. After all, it’s not like community members just decided to become cynics for a laugh.
It is plain for all to see that aircrafts like F-15E, Typhoons and Rafale are in a league of their own, but they don’t even recieve a BR increase of any sort.
It is very difficult to take BR changes seriously in the face of such patently absurd oversight.
Except the F-15E, Typhoon, Rafale and Su-30SM are all at their own BR. At 14.0.
Yeah, they could be moved up to 14.3. But then most 13.7s would also move up to 14.0
Most 13.3s to 13.7s,
etc etc
The only ones that might benefit is the Fox-2 slingers at 13.0 but thats about it., though many would still be at the same BR as the early Fox-3 slingers
Quite frankly, I dont really see a huge issue with their current BR placement or the state of top tier and would far rather see 7.0-10.0/11.0 massively decompressed instead next.
A flat, low trajectory of the missiles and firing at shorter range makes it harder to shoot them down. Ideally you fire them without line of sight from a very low launch position, then pop over the horizon shortly before impact to guide them in. That way the Pantsir is often not able to see them at all until they’re very close.
That’s a far bigger balancing discussion and not really related to the Brimstone working very well in the hands of capable players. The Typhoon is obviously better than the Su-39 because besides being able to get into and out of CAS launch positions much more quickly than the Su-39 it is, together with the Rafale, by far the best CAP fighter for GRB. And presumably ground SIM too, but to be honest I don’t really know how that mode plays, so maybe the F-15E takes the edge there because of better radar performance or whatever.
Not complaining. Just point out you’re judging the the Type 81 and its competiton by vehicle performance in the hands of decent players and the Brimstone by the performance of people that aren’t particularly good at using it.
Would you like to explain how this is possible without increasing the max BR?
The only genuine way to decompress BR is to start at the bottom BR, have underperforming vehicles remain where they are and every other vehicle in the gamemode shift up 1 step which raises the BR cap. Then you evaluate the next BR step and so on.
We’d end up at BR 35 or something by the end, but there’d be little compression and probably more interesting matches.
Eventually performance differences wouldn’t be so dramatic in the case of full up or down tier.
Gaijin genuinely needs to do this, sooner the better.
Merkava Mk.2D: receive M426, its historical shell.
Since there is an insistence on bumping this tank’s BR higher and higher for no objective reason every time, at least it should have at 10.0 the same shell that many 9.3s already have.
I was low to the ground, about 10-15km from the target with a slight hill between me and 2 of the Pantsirs.
I fired all available Brimstones. They were all shot down within about 4 seconds by one of them.
They had barely gotten half way to the target.
If I had waited till I got closer, I would have been shot down, you cannot defend against 1 pantsir in a Typhoon at 5km, let alone 2.
In the end, we managed to kill them when I distracted them and a friendly F-18 snuck in behind and killed them with AGM-65s. The fact it took 2 CAS to kill them was rather insane. Well until they immediately respawned, and shot down the F-18
The point is, there is no justification for BOTH having an AHISTORICAL Brimstone 1 AND it having no FnF.
I know MMW is a complicated issue, but that is why we are nerfed to SAL Only. Nerfing us from Brimstone 2s to Brimstone 1s as well is just insulting.
Its like limiting the Su-30SM to laser guided KH-29s. Soviet mains wouldnt stand for it when KH-38MLs actually existed.
and quite frankly this idea that the Typhoon is “Too OP and must be nerfed” is just hypocritical given the fact that never ever seems to apply to anyone else. I didnt see the F-16s for example limited to AGM-65As when they were new because the F-16 was soooo much better than the Tornado Gr1.
Then judge it by that criteria then.
It has no radar, so cant see anyone coming.
IR signatures are a mess, especially when even the slightly whiff of cloud is involved and targetting helis is apparently impossible
yes its deadly when used against something that is within range, but given the fact that the main top tier CAS that it exclusively faces can sit outside of that range with a fair amount of ease, I seriously doubt how often it actually gets that chance.
Meanwhile a Pantsir can quite happily locate, track and engage targets out to 20km and interecept any A2G weapon fired at it. The Only thing it would probably actually struggle to defend against is an Su-30SM spamming KH-38MTs at it which of course, it literally never faces.
Type 81 vs ADATS is maybe comprable, but neither should be 0.3 below the Pantsir. Comparing the Type 81/ADATS to the Pantsir is like comparing the Gepard 1A2 to the 2S6 (actually I thin kthe Type 81 and ADATS are closer in performance to the 2S6 than they are to the Pantsir and its hard to figure out why all 3 arent at the same BR. )
Still baffles me that the F-15E and F-15i are not moving up in BR despite all the other top attackers moving; especially when you remember the Strike eagles are much better multiroles over-all than the Typhoon due to having more hardpoints and actual fire-and-forget TV/IR weapons instead of nerfed laser brimstones. Wont even bring up glide bombs.
More hilariously, after these BR changes, if the Strike Eagles dont move up, the Mirage 2000D-RMV will be the same BR, because somehow, according to US mains, a dorito with no built in guns and two WHOLE fox-2s is somehow equal in ground battles to a Strike Eagle with more ordnance and AMRAAMs.