[Poll] Remove the R-27ER from the early Mig-29 variants

[ron_23]

@HighRiskNoReward

Take the R-27ER and give it access to R-73 it automatically sits on the 13.0 zone which sadly is extremelly compressed as of right now. Let it keep the 27ER… Still 13.0… And would still be overshadowed by the flanker which has a much better loadout and better FM, so whats the point?

the R-27R + R-73 combo wouldnt make it 13.0

that exact combination of missiles already exists on a fighter at 12.3

[HighRiskNoReward]

1- Mig-21bison is undertiered
2- It carries 2 less missiles
3- The FM is MUCH worse

[ron_23]

Iam not arguing about the Br placement about a historical Mig-29 iam just pointing out that thoise missiles already exist at a lower BR and i should also point out that Gaijin dosent really care about the ammount of missiles a jet can carry (Mig-29G and Su-27 being at the same BR),
also gaijin dosent seem to be to concerened about flight performance (Mig-29G and Mig-29SMT were at the same BR until the additon of Fox-3s)

Should the Bison be uptiered to 12.7 yes probably

Should the Mig-29 go up if it gets the r-73 + r-27r combo probably not if we look at the 14.0s
and if we look at the 11.7s pretty much all of them would be able to handle the Mig-29 in a full uptier
(it are mostly the A-10C and F-111C/F which all get a lot of flares and a MAW so they are able to defend against the r-73)

also better missiles equals higher BR with the r-27r being worse than the Sparrows at its BR (7m/p) and the r-73 being better than the sidewinders at the br it would make it aysmetrically balanced with the Mig being worse at longer range and the F-14 (as an example) better at long ranges but
the Mig better at close ranges and the F-14 worse at that
and that is completly ignoring the flight models (lets not lie to ourselfs and admit that the Mig-29 has probably a worse flight model than any other 4th gen currently in the game)

[HighRiskNoReward]

@ron_23

Should the Mig-29 go up if it gets the r-73 + r-27r combo probably not if we look at the 14.0s

Then why the F-16A at 13.0? What about the 11.7s? Mig29 at 12.7 with r73 is just idiotic

[ron_23]

@HighRiskNoReward

What about the 11.7s?

I addressed that, read the whole message before writing a reply

@ron_23

if we look at the 11.7s pretty much all of them would be able to handle the Mig-29 in a full uptier
(it are mostly the A-10C and F-111C/F which all get a lot of flares and a MAW so they are able to defend against the r-73)

[HighRiskNoReward]

@ron_23

also better missiles equals higher BR with the r-27r being worse than the Sparrows at its BR

R-27R is better than aim7f/m. You can argue that the aim7p is on par or better but that’s only available on a unbalanced premium jet because of BR compression

[HighRiskNoReward]

@ron_23

and if we look at the 11.7s pretty much all of them would be able to handle the Mig-29 in a full uptier

lol

[ron_23]

@HighRiskNoReward

R-27R is better than aim7f/m

It is not, it is slower which increases time to target and makes it easier to start evasive manouvers ontop of having less range

Yet again a missile that is better at closer ranges but worse at longer ranges and let’s not ignore the elephant in the room that the aim54 is

[HighRiskNoReward]

similar time to target at short ranges with IOG and datalink

[ron_23]

So you can’t give a counter argument

You argument was that the r73 would be too good against 11.7s thing is that most of them have pretty easy and fool proof ways of dealing with IR missiles also let’s not forget the magic 2 which is on the M2K at 12.3

[ron_23]

Better at close ranges worse at long ranges, thanks for repeating what I said

[HighRiskNoReward]

Do you want to try that?

[ron_23]

Oh no flaring a magic 2 at 11.3 is fine but flaring a r73 at 11.7 would be impossible

Are you even trying to address my points?

[HighRiskNoReward]

The distances where aim7f has energy advantage are distances where both missiles are very easy to defend against

[HighRiskNoReward]

F1C? You want to compare that to the mig29?

[ron_23]

Are you just not reading my messages there is a M2K at 12.3

@ron_23

let’s not forget the magic 2 which is on the M2K at 12.3

The f1c is 11.7 in sim btw so there are 10.7 planes that have to be able to defend against magic 2s

[HighRiskNoReward]

The mk2 s4 is also undertiered, the s5 is 12.7 but has bad radar missiles. Having 2 magic2s + 2 530d is not the same as having 4 r73 + 2 r27r or 6 r73

[HighRiskNoReward]

@ron_23

The f1c is 11.7 in sim btw so there are 10.7 planes that have to be able to defend against magic 2s

You are well aware that I am not defending BR compression, and to be honest a 10.7 has the same trouble flaring the magic 2 as any other jet but thats another discussion

[ron_23]

@HighRiskNoReward

mk2 s4 is also undertiered, the s5 is 12.7 but has bad radar missiles

That’s why I heard ppl say on multiple occasions that the r530d is better than the sparrows and the 12.3 M2K gets them as well

On top of that the 12.7 M2K has a MAW

@HighRiskNoReward

is not the same as having 4 r73 + 2 r27r or 6 r73

Are you sure? Gaijin does not seem to care about it, which I laid out in one of my earlier messages as well.
Ontop of that the M2K at 12.7 has way more countermeasures and way better avionics than the Mig29 at the same BR, so you have trade offs also known as asymmetric balance
And that is yet again ignoring the Migs flight performance which is mediocre at best compared to any other 4th gen

[ron_23]

@HighRiskNoReward

I am not defending BR compression

Then please go on and make a good argument for why the mig29 should continue to have the best fox1 in the game which it historically never had (in a game that advertises it’s realism) and why it shouldn’t have the missile that it was designed to use and the reason why it has HMS