@MiG_23M I have a strong feeling that I am corresponding with an elementary school student
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Fascinating.
But at the same time, you think the center of mass is closer to the control fins “rudders”? In blue.
Fascinating.
At the same time, you think the center of mass right down the middle in Grey.
Fascinating.
K-12 education on full display.
Ah yes, says the guy who does not know how lift is generated in supersonic flight.
Who larps around the forum as a Russian Rocket Scientist lol.
Who also has no access to the Mig-29, no access to the Su-27 & no access to any R27 variant whatsoever.
Fascinating existence you must have.
Fascinating.Ahhahh
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I think he put himself under with those comments. All his nonsense has already been debunked at this point and we can rest lol
Put himself under & we can rest he says… This is very serious to you, isn’t it?
But hey, before you rest. Can you please explain your logic?
This is very true. Good job.
It also covers almost the entire back half of the missile.
However, at same time, you think the center of mass right down the middle in Gray… Why?
& also at same time, you think the center of mass is closer to the control fins “rudders”? In blue… Why?
Correction, for an aircraft to fly, total amount of produced lift from all surfaces, may they be the body (eg F-15) or wings or control surfaces (momentary lift is also counted yes) must be equal to or greater than the weight of the aircraft.
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Not quite, because not all surfaces produce any airflow deflection until they are deflected
check Askelads video about using any vehicle that u want in WT without needing to research it
any airflow deflected from a moving body exerts a force onto the body itself.
it that exerted force is upwards opposite to the pull of gravity, it is called lift
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Yes, and no.
Flight control surfaces do not generate any lift when not in use. Lift must be generated by forward movement. That is a critical component to its definition. The wings & fuselages generate lift by simple forward movement. Flight control surfaces do not.
Flight control surfaces such as spoilers, ailerons, elevators & rudder deflect airflow to change attitude of the aircraft’s direction along 3 dimensions & improve stability. They do not produce enough mechanical force on their own when deployed regardless of if it’s opposing the weight of gravity to be called Lift.
Since they do not produce any airflow deflection when not in use either, that also eliminates them from what Lift is as well.
Only the wings and fuselage can directly oppose the entire weight of an aircraft by simply going forward. That is why wings are placed at the center of gravity of fixed winged aircraft.
Only wings and fuselage can directly oppose the entire weight of gravity and stay airborne. It’s not a combination of many different surfaces.
Only they can keep the aircraft up in the air. Without them the aircraft falls out of the sky.
Flight control surfaces such as the flaps and elevator can enhance lift, but only enhance the Lift that is in the Wings and fuselage.
You can fly without elevators and flaps. Though it’s very bad.
Elaboration: A control surface parallel to the direction of motion does not produce any lift IF it does not deflect any airflow.
Correction: lift is generated by deflection of airflow.
Correction: they do not produce enough force opposite to gravity to enable the aircraft to achieve flight. How ever they still contribute to the equation. There can be no denying this involvement.
Yes we agree on that. The issue isnt when they are not actively deflecting airflow, but rather when they are deflecting airflow in a direction that causes a force on the travelling body that acts opposite to the vector of gravity.
Correction: Any surface that comes into contact with airflow can contribute to the total sum of lift produced by that body. Wings and fuselage are permanent lift providers assuming no stall states.
control surfaces provide lift only upon deflection.
While this is the common pattern of aircraft design, this is not the reason for wings situated at the COG. The reason is stability of the Airframe in flight. Russian Aeronautical doctrine focuses on super manoeuvrability and hence uses inherently unstable airframe designs to achieve such a feat.
A centrally mounted main wing is done so for stability of the aircraft. A non centrally mounted main wing is done for intentionally causing instability and thus opening new lanes for increased manoeuvrability using the instability (however complex computers are required to control such aircraft such as on the fulcrum, flanker etc)
Thats where you are mistaken brother. As i said before, if it is in contact with airflow, it can provide lift. You just need a deflection exerting a force opposite to the gravitational pull.
All these surfaces work in harmony to keep the aircraft flying. All are necessary.
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It feels great to speak to someone who knows the aspects of flight. I must say. But we differ on some components. Not a biggie.
Thats correct.
No because rudders affect yaw & if you tilt the aircraft on its side, it and hold it there the aircraft will rapidly lose altitude.
In WT you can hold it on its side all day. Because of course, it’s a video game.
Even when rudders are deployed in normal level flight their deflection does not contribute to the Lift holding the aircraft in the air & opposing the weight of gravity.
Correct. That is because an aircraft relying solely on its vertical stabs and rudders for lift is not receiving enough lift.
Suppose the F-15 requires 10N of lift to fly.
The main wings provide 8N and the body provides 2N.
That is enough to achieve flight.
Required lift = 10N
Generated lift = 10N
Result: F-15 maintains altitude and no stall state occurs.
However, when the ailerons or horizontal stabs (elevators) are put into a deflection angle with the incoming airflow, they will add to the total lift produced.
Suppose the total added is 2N from the deflected elevators.
Required lift = 10N
Generated lift = 12N
Result: F-15 increases altitude.
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The center of mass is indicated in the same image as you were told. This is the real world center of mass location as indicated by the patent. Did you not see when we told you this… multiple times?
I don’t think this, the patent clearly states it.
Good point, but are they enhancing the lift in the wings and fuselage or creating this additional lift all on their own?
Feels great to speak to someone who knows about flight!! My god.
Whether the entire wing moves or a trim piece moves is the difference between simply changing angle of attack or modifying the shape of the wing. In both cases the center of pressure changes and the overall amount of lift is modified.
Although it seems to me that you are trying to equate trim devices with the rudders on the R-27 series.
Both actually.
When the control surfaces are deflected they produce lift. They also cause the whole airframe to change the Angle of attack (AOA) with respect to the airflow. And thus cause the airframe to produce more lift.
So it is an enhancement of the lift from the airframe + generation of lift from the control surfaces.
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But this is not entirely true when it comes only to rudders as we agreed.