Well, he explained exactly this in one of the quotes you used, you just cut out that part
His explanations to why it cannot fly beyond 1,000 are irrelevant.
He declared outright, is not possible that R27ER fly beyond 1,000 meters a second at 1km altitude.
Yes or no?
His explanation where he literally explains the variables are not irrelevant
In the first quote, he literally explains what I was telling you
In the second quote, he says:
This was worded a bit weird sure, but it’s not hard to work out that in “the missile to go 1,000 m/s” the ‘to go’ was meant as in accelerate (Δv), especially since he explained the whole “from a stand-still” and calculated it for you some messages previous, In the paragraph you quoted:
You are splitting hairs.
He declared multiple limitations of why the missile cannot exceed 1000 meters a second at 1km as follow.
His interpretation of Delta V in-game is proven false.
He then claims the missile is limited by of the speed of sound at 1km altitude alone. Not accounting for dag.
That is proven false in-game.
He then claims it is impossible to exceed 1,000 meters a second due to drag at 1km
That is proven false in-game.
He gave multiple reasons across varying subjects as to why the R27ER cannot exceed 1,000 meters a second @ 1km altitude.
However, the missile exceeds his expectations in WT and was just PROVEN here:
He has inadvertently deadlocked himself in his claims that are in direct contradiction to the ER performance at 1km altitude.
Either he is right in everything he just claimed, & the R27ER is overperforming
Or
the R27ER is performing correctly, & it is his claims that are wrong.
Which is it?
You cannot answer the question.
Does the R27ER exceed every limitation he just claimed?
He named multiple limitations: DeltaV, drag at 1km & his idea of what the speed of sound is at 1km.
Yes, or no?
It’s a simple question.
Not just basic questions.
Basic knowledge.
This question?
I have not read your your whole conversation, I don’t know about all of his claims. I just logged on today and saw this ‘proof’ of him lying, I looked at the quotes and to me it seemed like a big misunderstanding, of acceleration vs top-speed. I pointed out that he explained this to you in the post you quoted, there is no need to attack me for it.
You only listed one limitation of his claim why the missile cannot exceed 1000 meters a second at 1km. A basic observation.
You are right actually. People defending the model are hung up on top speed.
The R27ER is not just overperforming in top speed, its overperforming in acceleration.
It can exceed over 1,000 meters a second @ Mach 3.1- Mach 3.4 in little as 5-7 seconds. That already outperforms the DCS model
Let me know if you have any more questions
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This is because thrust is static and does not change with altitude or air pressure in the game. To match 0-5km performance (which gaijin does for all missiles with the AIM-54 being a special exception).
At lower altitudes the thrust would be less in real life, but burn time longer. The in-game performance was to meet the 5km data from the chart. It underperforms above and to prevent overperformance they adjusted the drag model. This is why it is important to look at the specific datapoints and reasoning I put before you. The devs explanation was clear and you haven’t touched on that.
@CorporalApollo there was no misunderstanding, he just can’t let go of the past and wishes to heckle me. Unfortunately for him it doesn’t make any of his points valid. He’s dying on a non-existent hill because he has supported his position with nothing.
I know you won’t want to be dragged into the kerfuffle but I didn’t feel the need to respond earlier and really didn’t need to now as you saw… What I said speaks for itself. You yourself understood my position quite well.
On this particular point I’d like to re-establish the fact that you were wrong about top speed.
You were also wrong about AoA, range, acceleration, fins producing lift, etc.
You were quite literally wrong about every claim you’ve made in regards to the missile. Perhaps you’d like to look at the range charts and see if it has the correct range? We have the Su-27 manual data on frontal and rear hemisphere launch range from sea level to high altitude.
Its over, just stop.
You are the only person that is proving its overperforming …
Your only datapoint & only source The Moscow Aviation Institute places it at 10 seconds to reach shy of 800 m/s as you explain below.
You name the source by name when comparing it to the DCS model.
I said the R27ER far exceeds that at 1km.
You then explain in detail why it is impossible to exceed 1,000 meters a second (Mach 3.1) at 1km altitude.
You list 3 reasons
You are proven incorrect good sir!
He’s freaking out because the missile exceeds his impossible limitations!
No it doesn’t.
https://img-forum-wt-com.cdn.gaijin.net/original/3X/1/8/18fafeaee420447585a8580f9a100d2500b30dbb.jpeg
For this scenario, the launch speed is ~500 m/s (1.56 mach).
The acceleration is adjusted to match the 5km altitude figures from the chart the devs explained this already (see screenshot of their response below and click here for the original report).
However I must point out that it underperforms in top speed here by nearly 100 m/s as well. The top speed comes out to mach 4.06 (1,301 m/s). The chart shows 1400 m/s. This is not a big deal as the range and performance charts are still met otherwise…
And as you can see here, the acceleration is approximately 8 seconds and matches the chart above.
The error in your particular testing was not following the specified parameters. Higher drag conditions or higher launch speeds will cause the missile to reach the top speed sooner rather than later. The launch at lower altitudes and from different speeds than the chart will of course skew the results. In this case, there is no datapoint specified below 5km but we do see a trend. In-game missiles thrust does not change based on altitude so nothing in-game follows this trend. Thrust does not increase or decrease and burn time does not either… so in order for Gaijin to properly model range based on various altitudes they must adjust their atmospheric or drag models until such a time that they can work on dynamic thrust plots for missiles.
This goes for all missiles and especially the AIM-7F/M which are legitimately overperforming currently and need correction.
From a standstill, yes. The missile doesn’t exceed 1,075 m/s in any conditions because that is the overall deltaV output of the missile. We can calculate this easily from the datamined engine parameters and start / end weight.
I wouldn’t classify honestly debunking absurd claims as “freaking out”. Your mannerisms in this discussion are degenerating over time. I suggest you police yourself up a little bit and behave more professionally if you insist on continuing this one sided debate.
I don’t even need to debunk this nonsense. @BBCRF I think you will find this rather humorous. @MaMoran20 @CorporalApollo @FeetPics
lol I was just goofing around to see if you would freak out like you have been every time your been proven wrong.
Now you are arguing from a stand still. No one cares.
I always was
Apollo and anyone else reading saw and understood what was said. I am going to die of old age before you come up with a source for your absurd claims that the R-27ER is overperforming.
Every test and condition that I can check or has been reported has shown it is either underperforming justifiably or meets the conditions.
Only you would argue from a stand still magical zero drag environment, right?
No, you weren’t because you even factored in drag after the fact.
You concluded it is impossible in game.
It’s proven in game regardless of drag to exceed 1000 meters in under 7 seconds in actual gameplay and maneuver to kill opponents.
For the missile to achieve this a maximum overload of 35Gs is required. The missile over performs.
You stated that it would be double the 800 m/s figure given (1600 m/s) and later corrected yourself claiming it was a mistake. The point I was making is that this is impossible because the missile only has 1,075 m/s deltaV.
For it to go 1600 m/s it would need to be launched from 600 m/s which isn’t feasible at those altitudes for the launch aircraft.
Therefore, impossible… yes. Impossible for the missile to exceed the deltaV + launch speed conditions. No test necessary.
Though you think it is overperforming because it can exceed 1000 m/s when launched from 300+ m/s… this is rather silly. The missile has over 1km/s deltaV of course it can go 1km/s + launch speed before drag is considered.
Now please, if you’d just provide a source for your ramblings. Where on that chart does it indicate that the missile is going too fast at low altitude? Currently it underperforms from the other datapoints and you think that a higher drag coefficient is going to suddenly improve the performance in relation to this?
No one ever said the ER is overperforming at 16,000 feet altitude.
Actually, you are the only person who claimed it was underperforming there and you “confirmed it”
You actually did not and relied on the internet to tell you. The missile is much faster,
oh, is this you trying to latch on to something I said immediately to disregard? that you also acknowledged?
Why are you attempting to twist the truth more?
I see.
No, the developers confirmed it.
Again, while the website was erroneous the in-game performance is still less than the chart.
Stooping to your level actually, yes. My bad.
Yes, I discovered it. You lied and stated you confirmed all the performances of it.
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No, you claimed it was much faster than the in-game test showed. You guessed.
You’re misreading what I said and continuing to avoid any honest discussion practice.
I have been asking for well over 300 comments for you to provide a source and proof that the in-game model does not perform accordingly. You have done no such thing.
Please, redeem yourself. What was misread out of that?
Even when someone else questioned it you confirmed you tested it in game.
I actually play top tier. I did not have to do any guessing.
Look it’s over.
The R27ER overperforms and has exceeded every limit you declared & set, all you can do is continue to do is move the goal post.
Even at 5km altitude it exceeded your expectations. You thought it only was Mach 3.14…
You just keep making up limits to say it’s not overperforming & when proof is shown that it exceeds your limits, you move the goal post once again.