@Ziggy1989 I just read it now.The steering wheel drive of the R-27 is hydraulic, not electric.So there’s a lot of strength there
Look, I want true Soviet weapon systems not fake ones that determine the entire worth of the entire Soviet tech tree and the Mig29. The entire soviet tree is held back because of one model decision back then to add the missile. There is an absolute game imbalance that the totally fictional Mig29 has in WT. It is no longer feasible, practical & realistic that the Mig29 still be equipped with the R27ER. They are point defense fighters of the Frontal Aviation Air Armies of the Soviet Union. Their hallmark missile is the R73.
No one is disputing R27ER cannot perform or turn. But it’s not possible that it receives such a thrust that it performs perfectly at all ranges the entire flight envelope. No missile performs optimally in all regimes of flight.
Long burn motors alone are a direct contradiction to short range performance.
They are common choice in design to extend the range while maintaining a high degree of performance within.
Missiles do not maneuver well under constant thrust. That is why short-range missile have intense burst that burn out very quickly.
All missile’s maneuverability is best after the motor stops producing thrust that counteract the control surface’s ability to deflect airflow.
In exception to thrust vectoring missiles, that still work on the same principle. That is why the R73 is a slower missile, if it received any thrust to push it faster, the missiles control surfaces will be unable to efficiently deflect airflow under the increased force of the stronger motor and would defeat the reason of the missile in the first place. The Motor of the R73 burns longer than average, but only optimal thrust to maintain maneuverability.
The R27ER is already flying faster than all smaller short-range high-performance IR missiles available in game seconds after launch.
The missile is not meant for dogfighting it is the extended range version of the R27 made specifically & exclusively for the Su27s role at long range intercept of the PVO. It is most effective at range when the motor has burned out.
Maneuverability becomes the best when it corresponds to the parameters of speed and overload.And the higher the speed, the higher the overload the rocket creates
The min and max distances are clearly indicated in the operating manual. And the launch speed is min.-max.
I still don’t understand what you want to achieve? to have the rocket removed?
It’s simple to solve this and at the same time it will stop you from writing gigantic texts.
Look for reliable/primary sources, make a bug report and fix the missile if it is really overperforming.
If you’re not going to do any of this, everything you’re saying is nothing more than opinions that won’t change anything in the game, things that change weapons or flight models in the game are bug reports
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You are absolutely correct.
That is why R27R is only 35G capable.
The R27R maximum operating parameter speed and overload is at Mach 3.5-4 before aerodynamic failure.
The R27ER is equipped with the exact same aerodynamics and controls that are of the R27R and same maximum overload.
It does not matter how strong they are or hydraulic. It lacks the aerodynamic shape to efficiently deflect the immense force of high-speed airflow to change attitude under the motor thrust.
The ER is already beyond at the maximum operating speed & beyond the maximum overload immediately after launch at low altitude. However, still able to maneuver in the same turn radius as the R27R.
That is impossible.
Where does this conclusion come from that it can’t? The hydraulic drive handles steering deviation.You don’t have an understanding of how overload is created.Let’s say the R-27 at a speed of 3.5 M requires a 5-degree steering deviation to create 35G.Whereas the R-27ER will need only 2 by 5M
There won’t be such a radius because the speed is different
R=V^2/g×sqrt(G^2-1)
The ability to deflect airflow does not determine the ability to effectively steer, just as thrust does not determine whether an aircraft has the ability to effectively fly beyond the speed of sound.
Aerodynamic shape does.
The R27ER must cut off its active thrust to maneuver optimally. It was not designed for close quarter performance anyway & was never used in that way ever.
It was designed for long-range intercept, so it sacrificed performance at close range. It must sacrifice close quarter performance for range & speed.
The design was focused on a variant to deal with long range threats of the Su27. The R27ER is not an all-purpose missile like its used in War Thunder.
If that was the case, The R27ER would actually have been given to the Mig29.
But it was not. GJ artificially made it that way.
Its real simple, none of you or GJ has a single source that proves the acceleration and close quarter performance of the ER.
It’s not my job submit a bug report, it won’t do anything anyway. GJ has made the R27ER intentionally as is out of a game balance decision, not out of historical accuracy. They will alter it when they feel it’s ready.
I am free within my rights to discuss it with likeminded Individuals.
Lastly, why would I care if it does get changed? I am a Soviet & Chinese Air RB main that flies Flankers even though I have every access to every top tier fighter. Competitively, I can care less. However, it is completely ruining Soviet aviation history & design of what the Mig29 is. That is my concern.
You are an exclusive Soviet main & it is the only reason you are offended by any mere mention or discussion of the overperformance in the ER.
So, okay, your solution to whatever the problem is… is complain until you get tired? you dont have sources, you dont wanna search for them, you dont want to make the bug report, so i dont get it, you just like to argue with ppl non stop?
seems like you care a lot tbh, look at you writing essays, are u saying that this gigantic texts are just for nothing?
in this acc i am, and i couldnt care less about the performance or overperformance of the r27er, the only thing that i care are the flight models, if they got rid of the r27ers and fixed the 29s and su27 flight models it would be fine for me, it is literally the only thing i always wanted, good flight models cause i enjoy practicing duels more than playing air rb.
My point was, if something bothers you so much and doesn’t feel right, the only thing that will change it is if you make a bug report with sources and with tests proving that is wrong, cause gaijin wont accept your opinion only. simple as that
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What are you, my therapist?
I am merely discussing on the forum topic regarding the topic of removing the R-27ER & its overperformance in WT.
You are emotionally bothered because people are trying to discuss the ER’s state in the game. The truth is discussion generates awareness & ultimately change. That is the only reason you here complaining about the amount of words I type.
The Forum is for discussion of the game. You can discuss the game without any requirement that you must submit a bug report. Neither is it a question of realism or historical performance anyway. GJ modelled the missile for the Mig29. It is a modelling decision, and they are the only ones that will determine when the missile performs realistically.
There is no source that exist that proves the ER can perform as it does in game. Increased top speed is from the long burn motor and the kinetic energy that was generated and stored.
The R27ER is physically incapable of maneuvering at the immediate speeds and constant thrust it does in WT.
It is a 35G maximum overload missile because it uses the same exact aerodynamic design and controls of the R27 and to maneuver as it does with the energy it immediately travels requires a much higher overload.
The ER is overperforming at close quarters & it has no business being equipped on any version of the MiG29.
You have ignored every source provided and provided zero yourself. Why bother with such long nonsensical texts? There is zero logic in your arguments and you can’t stick to a single main point or opinion as you meander all over the place with these long winded and pointless responses.
In fact, most of (if not all) your claims are outright denied by primary sources provided for the R-27 series.
Nonsensical text???
Says the guy that does not know what the mechanical force of lift is and only understanding comes from mythical tales of flying pieces of wood that can oddly fly up to Mach 5 as well…
Who is also incapable of understanding a thing he reads and actually believes that all R27s variants can perform 40 degrees alpha at Mach 5…
The R27ER has no capability of any maneuvering once it reaches Mach 5.
Because it would then officially meet all the criteria to classify it as am operational hypersonic missile.
The R27R has never flown past Mach 4. You do not know what you are talking about, your sources are false & that is why they are ignored.
Where did you get this nonsense from?
Thrust is one of the determining factors
Aerodynamics certainly affects.But we are talking about a rocket that is a tube with rudders
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ER does not turn off thrust, as does ET
middle-range
The MiG-29 can use the ER anyway
Actually, that’s what the technical operation manual is called
This is just your guess
I meant by cut off, is to stop producing active thrust. By simply burning out in this case.
The missile would be most maneuverable & not have to act against the additional weight of thrust & acceleration.
Yes, but in War Thunder talk I simplified.
Which also brings up another good point. Thank you.
The R27ER is a middle-range missile. There is absolutely no reason it would have close quarter performance killing massive thrust & long burning motor. At the same time use the same experience no upgrade in aerodynamic design.
The R27ER most likely received a longer burning motor with no massive increase in acceleration.
It explains the top speed & why it remains 35g maximum overload without any upgrades needed.
Where does this conclusion come from?
You have no understanding of the flight of a flying machine
Do you know what G forces are?
The are expressed in units of standard gravity
The faster a missile travels, the more it must act against forces of gravity to maneuver. G forces.
G forces are created by many things. Speed and motion are a major contributor to G forces.
The R27ER is only rated for 35Gs. That is because it shares the same aerodynamics of the R27R.
The R27R can only fly Mach 3.5-4 before aerodynamic failure.
The ER is equipped with the aerodynamic same surfaces & controls. It never flew at the accelerations, speeds & maneuverability at close range you see in game.
It would be impossible. GJ is conflating its top speed at altitude & the performance of the R27R and applying to hyper acceleration and close range maneuverability.
That is your guess.
The fact remains. It never received it & for a technical reason.
the R27ER was specifically designed for and fielded by the Su27 and targets at extended ranges.
The ER was never as good as the R27R at closer ranges & the Mig29 is a Frontal Aviation point defense fighter.
There was zero reason to give it to the Mig2. Had the missile been this good…
The Mig29 would have received it.