Ahhahah. It’s funny considering that. That the article that you cited indicates that the streamlined body is at a certain angle of attack.It is not equal to zero.You’re trying to prove everything that an absolutely symmetrical body creates lift
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Oh wow, you thought I said no airfoil has never been at angle of attack. Yes, obsolete airfoils & I already educated you on that remember?
Airfoils today have no angle of attack and still produce lift. You need another link for that too?
Nice pivot.
For airplanes, yes.But air-to-air, AIM,AG missiles must have absolute symmetry.
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what’s the point of this debate it isnt going anywhere
You are right, they have successfully derailed and ran everyone out who came to discuss their thoughts on overperformance, why it should be removed from the Mig29.
No momentum can be generated because these two dudes who don’t play top tier have only one graph & their interpretation of it.
They have no sources on the thrust specifications. It never received additional thrust. Just a longer burning motor.
That is why it never received any aerodynamic upgrades & is still a maximum 35G overload missile just like the R27R.
The ER and R27R both share the exact same limitations. One is just heavier and burns for a longer period. The massive acceleration in game is entirely made up.
Simply settle this, provide the thrust specifications of the ER.
@MiG_23M & @BBCRF
I just looked at my document. And the videos you brought. Fits into the speed and range for a rocket
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If I recall correctly, that was not what you were crying about a second ago.
Something about speeds I was flying, WT is poorly modelled etc.
See, all you are here to do is derail. You have no actual sources for thrust.
You don’t even access to the Mig29 or Su27 but complain about how the developers made it wrong all over the forum.
You can’t even test fly it.
I looked at the standard table where the parameters of the carrier and the target and the height of 0.5 km were indicated. And the range fit into the video.In the video, your speed is not the same with the target, you fly faster.
Unfounded
So, what you are really trying to say is you do not have the thrust specifications for the ER’s motor.
Gotcha.
Yo! My dude does not even have access to any Mig-29 or the Su-27! He can’t even test fly them.
How does one complain daily on the forum about models the developers made that they never experienced or even test flown?
How can you be so sure?
I have a comrade for that.
Because even in your own discord that you invited me. All of you have made it abundantly clear you do not have a single source to the actual thrust of the motor.
Let me know when you guys find it.
Thanks for the invite though! I appreciate it! The Flanker is my all-time favorite fighter.
The R27ER was honestly just a bad missile overall. Like absolutely terrible. The Chinese labeled it as Aim7 Vietnam levels of inefficient.
I personally like realism in my WT models. Even if it makes my gameplay more challenging. The ER is point click without having to calculate any variable, like altitude, range & heading like other SARHS. It just zips to target.
I cannot wait to lose the fictional performance of the R27ER & finally get R77s carrying Flankers.
The hole you’ve dug is too deep. All performance metrics of the R-27ER match or underperforms against the available information and sources. This has been explained by the developers. Your entire position lacks foundation. It is make believe.
The only “sources” you’ve provided conflicted with the points you failed to make. I think it’s time you conceded. Everyone reading can see your trolling has gone too far.
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Look @BBCRF, just to be clear because you are a fellow main.
I am not coming from a place of hate. Only love for the Soviet Aviation & from someone who plays top Tier air RB exclusively
I believe the ER is ruining the Mig29. I believe its missing agility. Maybe not full range (though it can cobra Irl), but response to all dimensions of control is way too low and easily compressed too low of speeds.
It’s also missing the R73. There is no Mig29 in game that can carry both the R73 & R60. Which is a known loadout of the Mig29. I believe the ER efficiency is holding back what the Mig29 actually was.
The main complaint of the ER is because effect in the Mig29. Not the Su27.
I also believe the Flanker is held back in IRST performance, R27E, R27T performance their IRCM. I believe The regular R27R is better.
The Soviets were most feared for their passive IRST range capabilities in fighters & how good the R73 was found out to be after the Soviet dissolution.
The VVS SSR was never feared for its radar guided air to air missile capabilities to the extent it is in game. Until the N011M for the Flanker & N007/RP-31 Zalon of the Mig31
I believe we are deviating heavily on history in regard to the tech tree over the R27ER.
You, mention you do not like the Flanker model for whatever reason. GJ measures & acts on game efficiency overall.
Historical improvements and FM buffs are superseded by game efficiency & win rates.
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You didn’t even visit him.
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This has been an interesting read
Also tell your mothers you love them today
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Doesn’t this assume that the airflow is uniform(e.g. is not being disrupted by anything upstream)?
The bow shockwave creates a flow boundary with subsonic air downstream and surfaces behind it like the strakes in the R-27’s case obviously have some sort of impact on the flow otherwise they woldn’t be included.
As an aside I did find a somewhat tangentially related paper (Effect of Tail-Fin Span on Stability and Control Characteristics of a Canard-Controlled Missile at Supersonic Mach Numbers) looking at the Sidewinder(AIM-9J / -9P) under similar circumstances
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You’re missing the point that Ziggy claimed initially that the fins created zero lift whatsoever only to transition his argument towards claiming that equal lift both above and below the wing would hold it steady in level flight… somehow counteracting gravity without some form of positive lift.
He went as far as to claim initially that the tail section creates lift and the “rudders” (wings) don’t create any lift at all. This is in spite of the fact that they share the same type of supersonic diamond shaped symmetrical airfoil.
Anyhow, BBCRF was just using the source above as reference to indicate that when we refer to lift it is generally towards “positive” lift and not the net-zero lift applied at zero angle of attack for such an airfoil.
You do not understand what Lift is & what flight control surfaces are because you do not have an education outside of K-12. Even when armed with the full weight of the internet at your fingertips you still cannot comprehend what they are.
You continue to troll and derail anyone from discussing & seeking the truth of a matter with your poor comprehension just to be right.
Supersonic compression is how lift is generated at the speeds the missile flies.
Secondly, you do not know English or even the Russian meaning of the word Rudder. A Rudder does not mean wings!!! hahaha!
Rudder is just a generic term for steering in both English and Russian. Even an automobile’s steering wheel is sometimes referred to the rudder informally.
The formal definition in both Russian and English as follow: A rudder is a primary control surface used to steer a ship, boat, submarine, hovercraft, airship, or other vehicle that moves through a fluid medium (usually air or water). On an airplane, the rudder is used primarily to counter adverse yaw and p-factor and is not the primary control used to turn the airplane.
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The “tail section” as you try to refer to them is the wings. Even your “Google patent” states this.
The R-27s wings is a modified-double wedged clipped delta. They are diamond shaped at the tips to produce lift in supersonic flight. I can name the exact patterns on the missile. You cannot.
The “rudder” is the control fins and they are flat, they do not produce enough change in pressure to generate lift, only to steer the missile. That is why even your source uses the word rudder. It controls the ability to “steer” the missile.