Remove M51

[ULQ_LOVER]

@Panter2005

By simply knowing these tanks I have 50% of your authority. By playing the game and this BR I have 80% of your authority. By playing M-51 I have 90% of your authority.

By having as little games as You do and stats like You, what You describe in this topic is simply not true.

I have played this vechicle much more and did better in it to know that HEAT are not as reliable.

@Panter2005

The gun is very good for a 6.0.

The pen is good, nothing more really.

@Panter2005

Regardless of our personal experiences the fact of the matter is that it’s a gun that is not lacking by any means on AMX-30, which is at 8.0.

So all 75mm shermans should be at 5.7 as Jumbo is at 5.7 and is doing well?

@Panter2005

utilize the gun for sniping

Which in this game is not common and doesn’t guarantee success.

@Panter2005

The tank as a whole is much closer in performance to AMX-30, than a god damn Sherman 76.

Jumbo 76 is much more better tank than M-51.

@Panter2005

Since the gun is too strong and unfair for the tanks at 6.0, it definitely can deal with 8.0 opponents

It really isn’t.

The gun itself is not much as at 8.0 vechicles are much more mobile, have more reliable ammo and have stabilization.

@Panter2005

there are historical premises

That are not taken into consideration when talking about any vechicle in WT.

@Panter2005

I would even argue that for example T-54 1951 is a worse tank for sniping than M-51.

lmao

[EddieVanHalo-live]

6.7 is where the real problems used to start now with the M51 and Russian and US artillery the problem has crept down to 6BR and as low as 5 BR with the tier system.
People try to say there is no WW2 but there is and there is an over lap where Cold war and WW2 meet,no denying it.
Some of these vehicles do stretch the balance issue out quite a bit.

[light165neptune-psn]

@Panter2005

What?

I was referring to the ZTS63.

[Panter2005]

@ULQ_LOVER

By having as little games as You do and stats like You, what You describe in this topic is simply not true.

I have played this vechicle much more and did better in it to know that HEAT are not as reliable.

I give up. Your only argument is that you’re a better player, even when I explained to you why this argument is worthless. It’s astonishing how little information actually gets through your skull. It’s the same thing over and over again.

@ULQ_LOVER

So all 75mm shermans should be at 5.7 as Jumbo is at 5.7 and is doing well?

What kind of backwards logic is that, it makes me believe you can’t think logically.

@ULQ_LOVER

The pen is good, nothing more really.

@ULQ_LOVER

Jumbo 76 is much more better tank than M-51.

Lmao, of course, Jumbo 76 performs better against T-54s than M-51, simply because it has 13.2hp/t instead of 11.5, a stabilizer and APHE. Naturally 200mm pen@60 degrees 500 meters on M-51 vs 48mm of pen@60 degrees 500 meters on Jumbo 76 is an irrelevant detail.

@ULQ_LOVER

Which in this game is not common and doesn’t guarantee success.

No one cares when it hinders the whole German tech tree.

@ULQ_LOVER

That are not taken into consideration when talking about any vechicle in WT.

Should be.

@ULQ_LOVER

lmao

For sniping it is.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@Panter2005

I give up. Your only argument is that you’re a better player, even when I explained to you why this argument is worthless. It’s astonishing how little information actually gets through your skull. It’s the same thing over and over again.

My argument is that I have played this vechicle much more and that Your own words doesn’t match with Your performance.

@Panter2005

What kind of backwards logic is that, it makes me believe you can’t think logically.

It is the same logic as saying that gun of M-51 (HEAT round) can work at 8.0 so M-51 should be at 8.0

@Panter2005

Lmao, of course, Jumbo 76 performs better against T-54s than M-51

Jumbo 76 is better than M-51 at 6.3., I know it is hard to read but again try.

@Panter2005

No one cares when it hinders the whole German tech tree.

It doesn’t hinder anything. It can be frontally destroyed by Pz IV.

@Panter2005

Should be.

Of course not.

@Panter2005

For sniping it is.

lmao x2

[ZendikarHaven]

@Panter2005

It will never happen though, so I want it to be as reasonable as possible. If compromises must be made, then for example most of Swedish vehicles can stay where they are, but should have their APDS shells removed. However things like IKV 103 can go up to 8.0 with 400mm of HEAT pen.

please shut up and listen to what you are saying for a second, because you have no idea what you are saying

You would gut most of the swedish tree with this- Ikv would be basically useless at that BR due to horrid gun handling and an atrocious velocity. Removing APDS shells would make the '63 variant of the Pvkv M/43 completely useless. Stuff like the PT-76, Pvkv IV- hell, the Lago I isnt even good right now, and the APDS is its one saving grace.

APDS/HEAT-FS is not inherently powerful, and in many cases can straight up be worse then APHE. At , the BR the Ikv is at I would take a long '75, and even the shermans short '75 over it- its simply not good at that BR.

The Ikv can be killed by 7.7 MGs and has a horrendous shell velocity. The PT has a absolutely horrible HEAT-FS round, is pretty slow, and can be killed by .50cals.

@Panter2005

he problem is that right now there is no compromise, everything is for balance. No one cares one bit about historical accuracy.

Because it is a game, not a historical simulator.

[GNDM_Panzer]

" iT nEeDs To Be 8.o CuZ iT nO fAiR fOr MuH tiGoOoOr "

Utterly ridiculous. Everything within the M-51’s current BR range can pen it with little to no hassle. It’s a glass cannon with almost hand’s down the worst gun handling in the game, with a shell that is questionable at best due to how RNG the damage potential is.

[ZendikarHaven]

@GNDM_Panzer

with almost hand’s down the worst gun handling in the game,

Nah, that one goes to the Pvkv IV.

[GNDM_Panzer]

That’s why I said almost.

[Panter2005]

@ULQ_LOVER

It is the same logic as saying that gun of M-51 (HEAT round) can work at 8.0 so M-51 should be at 8.0

No lmao.

@ULQ_LOVER

Jumbo 76 is better than M-51 at 6.3., I know it is hard to read but again try.

A better tank should perform better at a higher BR too.

@ULQ_LOVER

It doesn’t hinder anything. It can be frontally destroyed by Pz IV.

Speaking of reading, I meant that small maps hinder the entire German tech tree too.

@ULQ_LOVER

Of course not.

Of course yes.

@ZendikarHaven

Ikv would be basically useless at that BR due to horrid gun handling and an atrocious velocity.

No. It doesn’t need good gun handling, it’s a TD.

@ZendikarHaven

Removing APDS shells would make the '63 variant of the Pvkv M/43 completely useless.

Lies. 75mm APHE with 150mm of pen is useless? Since when?

@ZendikarHaven

the Lago I isnt even good right now, and the APDS is its one saving grace

Pz 38s at 2.3 have similar guns, but without APDS, and no one complains they are useless.

@ZendikarHaven

Because it is a game, not a historical simulator.

[Just_Baron]

Not this again bruh.

It’s a cast hull Sherman and slower than a King Tiger. It’s not even the only thing there with HEAT 400mm~ pen HEAT Shells.

The M36B2 is objectively better in every way other than armor and sits at 5.7. And seriously, you’re complaining about a 3.3 Sherman with a big gun at 6.0? Why don’t you just shoot the damn thing and shut up. It is your fault if they snipe you.

[Just_Baron]

Oh look. The guy with 10K hours is seal clubbing 6.0 again and using that deceptive tactic to make people think he has a point when in reality he’s just bullying noobs. Other tanks at the same BR with similar armor and mobility have HEAT shells, why do you ignore them and only focus the M-51?

[markimash]

The picture you posted does nothing.

First circle: Nothing there says the mm is historical. just says that the vehicles are made using historical documents.

Second circle: again, nothing saying the mm is historical. only says that the maps are made to represent irl theaters. that just means “we have maps that are based on the topography of europe, north africa, and east asia”

ignoring what ever you meant on that one you have an arrow pointing at

third circle: says they have PvE that is historical. says nothing about PvP

fourth circle: immersion means that you feel apart of the action. immersion does not mean “this feels like a ww2 battle” unless they state that.

[Panter2005]

@Just_Baron

The M36B2 is objectively better in every way other than armor and sits at 5.7. And seriously, you’re complaining about a 3.3 Sherman with a big gun at 6.0? Why don’t you just shoot the damn thing and shut up. It is your fault if they snipe you.

@Just_Baron

Other tanks at the same BR with similar armor and mobility have HEAT shells, why do you ignore them and only focus the M-51?

Other things should move up too.

@Just_Baron

Oh look. The guy with 10K hours is seal clubbing 6.0 again and using that deceptive tactic to make people think he has a point when in reality he’s just bullying noobs.

Then comes @ULQ_LOVER saying his point stands because he is a better player. The double standards are insane.

[Panter2005]

It’s misleading advertisement, I don’t know why you defend it so much.

[markimash]

@Panter2005

Then comes @ULQ_LOVER saying his point stands because he is a better player.

yeah, i never like the stat card argument. I try to avoid checking stat cards.

[markimash]

Where is it misleading?

[CinnamonToePunch]

@Panter2005

Other things should move up too.

You agree that the M51 should move up? Why?? How would that be fair?

[ULQ_LOVER]

@Panter2005

No lmao.

Of course it is.

The 75mm gun can work on 5.7, then why have it on lower B.Rs.?

@Panter2005

A better tank should perform better at a higher BR too.

You know that different vechicles are for different playstyle thus not always they will give You the same results?

For me, Jumbo 76 is much better at 7.3 than M-51 on 7.0.

@Panter2005

Speaking of reading, I meant that small maps hinder the entire German tech tree too.

Topic is about M-51.

@Panter2005

Of course yes.

The game was never balanced this way, thus the argument is invalid.

[Just_Baron]

@Panter2005

Other things should move up too.

You’re seriously suggesting a Tank Destroyer shouldn’t have a firepower advantage over a Heavy Tank? That’s literally the whole point of that vehicle type.

@Panter2005

Then comes @ULQ_LOVER saying his point stands because he is a better player. The double standards are insane.

If you’re fighting with 10K hours in a BR full of new players (6.0), you’re not having a fair fight. I’ve aced at 8.7 in a Marder 3H. Does that mean the Marder 3H should be an 8.7? No. Performance from high skilled players should NOT decide what is and isn’t balanced.

Just because a vehicle is good in the hands of an experienced player, doesn’t mean it’s good to the average player. The M-51 is sluggish, as slow as 70-ton heavy tanks, has poor gun handling, and armor of a 3.3 tank. It’s a Tank Destroyer at heart and does that job decently. Any competent player will not die to a RARE M-51 player in the average engagement in game.