That same sherman has zero armor, will always die instantly to aphe, has no stabilizer, and a long reload
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what?
Leaving out their year-specific comments, they’re on point though. Heavy tanks trade virtually everything for armour, yet a medium tank can pen them from the front, while they’re maximizing armour profile no less? That’s just silly.
The traits of whatever is firing the round aren’t really relevant, that a heavy tank is being penned from the front as if its armour doesn’t exist is a problem.
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Not stat shaming, but you are earning higher KD’s on almost all heavies in this BR range than you are earning with cold war heat-throwers. You also never played the Ratel 20, so I don’t see how you can differentiate its OP versus just being outplayed. That same player might’ve killed you in a totally different tank in an equally “unfair” positional advantage and you’d have no grounds to make the case that it was because he/she had a ratel 20 you died.
My experience with those tanks is that while they can be very good once spaded, you get revenge bombed almost 100% of the time you play because everyone knows that your weakness is thin armor.
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-Misidentifies enemy tank
-Makes a poor decision based on that misidentification
-Gets punished for it
-Claims bias
If you just stopped and shot, you’d have won that fight 9/10 times. The Tiger’s gun is much more stable than the M51’s, and his post pen damage is so poor he needs time to line up an accurate shot on something critical, while you can just point and click anywhere.
It’s also not hard to differentiate between an M-51 and any other Sherman. It’s one of only three M4A1 hulls you can see in a 6.0 game (the other two being the now fairly rare M4A1 FL-10, and the standard M4A1 76mm), and it’s the only one with a large muzzle break. Misidentifying it as a Jumbo when it’s got an entirely different hull shape, turret and gun is, not to be too blunt about it, a skill issue.
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clearly hard to tell the difference 
tanks are more than their designations and in the same line of thinking heavy tanks do not give up “everything”, some have great guns, some have great survivability, some are actually decently fast despite being a “heavy” tank. Most of the time the answer is actually just compression but people don’t like that answer for some unexplained reason.
Nothing will ever be funnier than peoples complaining about WW2 vehicles fighting 60s stuff while conveniently ignoring how 80s stuff fights vehicles from the 2010s.
It’s literally just a case of confirmation bias making people upset. “Ugh, I got killed by a HEATslinger AGAIN, it is always like this!”
The vast majority of these HEATslingers, as previously mentioned, have great downsides that really don’t make them so OP.
It is hardly different from something like the Sturer Emil, just that one has an inferior form of armament and the other has a cannon with easy one shot capability. But hey, I guess that doesn’t warrant a complaint because of silly timeframe arguments…
I disagree, Jacksons slap for their BR.
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My honest opinion, there are toooooooooo many whiners in the forums. A lot of them complain for just about anything that kills them in the game. Nerf this, nerf that, remove this, remove that…like chill and learn to play, outsmart, outplay the enemies. Also, people tend to only remember that bad moments from WT resulting in crying in the forums and forgetting the good moments.
🤦
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My tank is not the best on its BR
Boohoo
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Don’t drive out in front of an M-51 then? The Tiger is an excellent vehicle, even after the BR increase, and it does not even really struggle in uptiers. If you’re consistently being killed by HEAT slingers, it’s unironically a skill issue.
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The technological gap becomes smaller.
By the 1960s, 1940s tanks were museum relics or obsolete pieces of junk.
By the 2010s, 1980s tanks are still in active service and fighting wars effectively.
The gap in differences (specially ingame) between M1A1 and M1A2 SEP is smaller than the one between, for example, Tiger II and AMX-30 (1972).
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Because every time you come across an enemy is “you driving in front of them”? Because otherwise encounters just don’t happen.
Not like I can take seriously anyone who unironically uses “sKiLl IsSuE” anyway, but I always find funny how some people are so obsessed with “mUh SkIlL” that they refuse to acknowledge any perfectly valid concern about a matter over it.
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That’s what should go for the people who need their vehicles to face other vehicles 30 years older in order to stand a chance, wouldn’t you agree?
Playing, outsmarting and outplaying should take place within otherwise objective balanced conditions. Being forced to do all that because your enemy has got a vehicle that was made in a completely different generation is not that.
It’s funny. When people don’t want their slow heavy tanks having their armor negated by shells that can penetrate three times their angled tank’s armor, it’s a “skill issue”; but then these same people proceed to explain that, while WW2 Heavy Tanks need to “just adapt”, their time-travelling tanks definitely would NOT be able to adapt if they were 0.3-1.0 BRs higher facing opponents slightly closer to their historical ones and facing WW2 tanks just a bit less often.
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No, but still. If you see an M-51, don’t peak it unless you know it’s moving (suspension bouncy, you can get your gun on target faster than it), occupied with someone else, or reloading. Just because the Tiger has armour doesn’t mean you should try bouncing shots, 1 rule is don’t get hit (or first, don’t get spotted actually).
That’s how you deal with these ‘OP’ heat slingers. Don’t try and outsnipe them, unless again, you know they’re reloading or busy with someone else.
It was more of a joke than anything else, lol. But I never have issues playing the Tiger and dying constantly to HEAT, so… shrug
What do you propose happens to vehicles like the M-51, AUBL/74, etc. Do they move up to BRs occupied by thermals, stabilisers, start of composite, etc.? Then they won’t be OP?
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As has been mentioned many times in the thread, these vehicles have some huge weaknesses. The M-51 is slow, has incredibly bouncy suspension, bad armour, a long reload, and poor post-pen damage. All it really has going for it is 400mm of pen. oh, and 3 respawns 6.0 is good for it. Maybe it could go at 6.3, 6.7 at a push, but I doubt it would change much.
You absolutely need skill to do well in the M-51. I find it fun sometimes, but more often than not it’s frustrating to play.
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My bad then, hahahah. You would be surprised at how many people used it unironically, specially on Reddit, so it’s difficult to tell at this point, hahah.
Not at all, there’s a middle ground involving decompression which is what I think we need. I never asked for 100% necessarily historical-based BRs because it would be as unbalanced as the current situation…
But there are some serious compression issues.
That’s why a Tank at (X) BR may be OP, but at (X.7) it may be useless. This should NOT be a thing.
Full uptiers should put you at slight disadvantage, not render your vehicle outclassed to uselessness.
M-51 should be 7.0… because many current 7.0s should be 7.3-7.7, current 7.7s should be 8.0-8.3s and current 8.0s should be 8.3-9.0s, and etc successively. Top BR should be around 14.0 at this point, for proper decompression at the BR ranges that suffer from it WITHOUT compressing other BRs, which is what Gaijin has been doing lately by shifting compression from one BR to another instead of just decompressing everything once and for all.
M-51 wouldn’t have to struggle against any harder opponents than now, but at least it wouldn’t be the same BR as mid-WW2 tanks and would only come across these in full downtiers instead of being the norm.
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122 HEAT-FS feels like 90mm HEAT-FS with the lack of spalling it creates. The ~13s reload is also abysmal compared to other HEATFS slingers.
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Out of curiosity then, what about other vehicles with HEAT?
IKV 103? Same HEAT pen as M-51, at 4.0.
ISU-152? At 4.7, 250mm HEAT, less than 400 but still easily cuts through Tigers. Same with its APHE as well.
Hell, what about the Semovente 90/53 at 3.7 – with enough pen and HE filler (granted, APHE not HEAT, but would kill either way) to oneshot a Tiger straight through the UFP? I love using it to kill Tigers in my 5.7 lineup, lol.
Maybe I’m being a little fallacious, but these are vehicles at low BRs that can quite easily kill the Tiger (and other late WW2 heavies). Do you not have an issue with them, because they’re more historical?
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