As a person who sometimes have enjoyed the occasional 8.3-8.7 API gameplay it just isn’t good for balancing. Anti airs are meant to shoot down planes and having stuff like the ItPsV leo 2 speed around the map shredding everything it comes across just isn’t fun and not how it should be used. 35mm AP is of course not the only issue but its the main. I think the best way to fix it is either by removing the AP ammo entirely, only keeping 40 APDS rounds for self defense, or just removing the AP belts and only including a few AP bullets in the HE belts. Its not like this would make these anti airs worse at being anti airs either, HE is just better at shooting down planes and helis.
To answer some counterarguments before you say them:
1. Its unrealistic, the anti airs had that ammo.
This wouldn’t be the first time a vehicle didn’t have something for balance reasons, and further its even more unrealistic that you would have anti airs loading full AP belts and running around cities and shooting every tank they see.
2. Just raise the BR
This just misses the point, these anti airs would still work like this at higher battle ratings, because the same thing remains that they are fast and can exploit warthunders stupid API and APHE damage model and the fact that tanks are weak from the side. They may become a bit weaker, but then you are balancing an anti air based on its anti tank capabilities, making them worse at what they are supposed to do.
3. Anti airs are designed for multi purpose, shooting at tanks was a part of that
Idk how many people believe this but its just not true, any APDS or API would more be a form of emergency self defense in case you have no armored support and you get ambushed, not whole belts loaded to shoot at tanks with. There are anti airs that are dual purpose, like the ADATS, but this is not that.
4. Its just warthunders bad API/APHE damage modelling
While i agree that it is bad, when the fire rate is at the rates of these anti airs, it would be a problem even if they would shoot solid shot that didn’t spall.
2 Likes
1- Realism isn’t related to this issue.
These are historical rounds, and anti-air do deserve a chance to defend themselves in between air being up.
2- The BRs are already balanced to begin with.
3- Strawman argument.
AP rounds are for aiding the penetration of aircraft parts, including engines, armor, spars, etc.
Removal of AP belts would make them worse at anti-air while being unhistorical.
4- Fire rate helps in anti-air duty, not as much for anti-ground.
Solid shot still spalls armor.
So yeah, there’s no reason to remove AP rounds.
If you’re in a tank, just keep eyes and ears open. MBTs at the same BR are hilariously superior.
- Nobody uses them to defend themselves in between air being up, as either you are rushing people with the anti air or sitting in spawn or close, and if you are in spawn or close and get pushed, its unlikely that you will be able to defend yourself against most front facing mbts, they are mostly effective at shooting tanks from the side. AND i mentioned that keeping the 40 APDS self defense rounds is reasonable and should be kept.
- This wasnt an argument i made, seems like you didnt get the point of this whole section maybe?
- It is a real argument ive heard, im just addressing things arguments ive heard before, not saying everyone thinks like this.
- Once again you missed the point, im not suggesting that this is how it works or should work, im saying that even if API or APHE didnt do so much damage it would still be an issue.
Seems like you didnt really read my post ig? Issue isnt that they are OP, its that they are disruptive for the gameplay for most players, not fun to play against and arent played how they should, which indicates that they are need a balancing change.
1- You admitted people are defending themselves right after the comma.
Moving forward is positional advantage for anti-CAS duties as well.
When your range is 2.5km on a good day, and the map is 2x2km large, getting 500 - 1200 meters closer to enemy CAS is a good decision.
SPAA is already balanced. They are easy frags for MBT players of equal or greater skill.
And your opinion on how they should be played doesn’t matter cause mankind isn’t a hivemind.
Doesn’t some 35mm AA not have APDS? So do they get 40 rounds of APHE or…
I don’t deny that SPAAs are sometimes used defensively, but that’s an edge case. If you’re being spawn-pushed, you’re usually dead regardless of ammo choice. That’s not where the issue comes from.
Yes, moving forward can make sense for anti-air coverage, but doing that properly still means staying near teammates with actual armor. If you’re playing the role correctly, full AP belts remain largely unnecessary. In that situation you’d run HE for air targets and keep the limited APDS belt purely for emergencies, exactly as I suggested.
And to be clear: this isn’t about SPAAs being “overpowered” or hard to kill. I know how to deal with them. The issue is that they’re disruptive: extremely fast platforms with high fire rate, rapid turret traverse, laser rangefinders, and the ability to instantly disable barrels or one-shot from the side.
Saying “good players can kill them easily” misses the point entirely. A mechanic can be counterable and still be unhealthy for gameplay if it forces constant passive play, punishes normal movement, and feels bad to engage with for the majority of players.
When a vehicle class is consistently being played outside its intended role because the game systems reward it, that’s usually a sign it needs a balance adjustment, not that everyone else needs to “play better.”
The 40 round self defense belts are just not a thing all anti airs have, if they dont have them, they dont have them.