Agreed.
If you reduce multi-pathing, suddenly Spain becomes the best map in EC. With nooks and cranny’s everywhere, and the runways positioned at the corners, the map FEELS bigger than it is because you’re rarely able to find anyone.
Unless you climb super high and can point your radar into those nooks and cranny’s, at the cost of exposing yourself
BAM! Better gameplay!
Multipathing for this modern missiles needs to go asap. It feels lame to nullify BVR this bluntly. Fights at this BR should happen several kilometers above the ground and not just a few meterd. We have aircraft with such crazy performance and don’t use any of it to climb.
Currently, the biggest EC maps we have are 128Km^2 in size, which means the diagonal from corner to corner is around ~182Km across. One of the reasons Spain feels so damn big, is because the airfields are somewhat close to the opposite corners of the map.
If we had 200Km^2 maps, the diagonal would be around ~282Km from corner to corner, which is 55% bigger.
A map this size would probably be way too big for active PVP gameplay. However, you put a ton of objectives on a map this big, and you get a very interesting formula imo.
Agreed. Re-positioning runways at the corner like Spain is a great interim-solution
Even on a 200x200 map it would still be plentiful - the radars we have rn are very powerful - people forget that outside of tws mode you can detect people with standard hdn into the hundreds of kilometres and by climbing up u can start to scan the whole map at once. That level of situational awareness, combined with EC’s objectives which end up funnelling people towards each other would still generate tons of pvp.
I’d love to have increasingly bigger maps personally
Also worth noting that we are getting “short range” Fox-3s this update, like the MICA EM, R-Darter and Derby. These missiles have a theoretical max range of ~50Km under the most perfect conditions. At lower altitude however, their engagement range is pretty much limited to WVR.
These missiles are incredibly potent for short range engagements, since they are lighter and more maneuverable, but their size and weight limits their kinematics for long range.
Planes that have these missiles won’t really have much standoff capability compared to longer range missiles like R-77, AIM-120, PL-12 and AAM-4.
On planes like the British JAS-39C, Mirage 2000-5F and F-16D, these shorter range Fox-3 are kind of their “beacon of hope” to finally do BVR; well guess what? Multipathing will simply destroy that hope very easily.
They are basically dogfighting Fox-3 missiles, yeah; only if such dogfights happen 100m above the ground.
Beyond yesterday you’d barely see any posts about sim in months
*posts, not replies
And previous multipathing threads specific to the sim community have indeed had the large majority of sim players in favour of realistic multipathing changes consistently
i implied that if it was a pressing issue facing the “majority” of sim players, you’d see an occurrence with the number of posts made about the issue since the best way to get them to acknowledge a problem is to be heard but thats not the case here.
It’s being discussed now because an oportunity to be heard was seen, the devs are actively monitoring feedback on the dev server, making this thread in other moments would not give it anywhere near as much attention, but rn its one of the most discussed threads in the forum, this should indicate to you that many people do share this opinion, it’s quite literally the most viewed thread other than the actual update one.
Yeah they would be a little disadvantage but still can contest people in bvr. Having the lighter fox3’s will still be a huge step up in capability and allow them to finally participate in the bvr fight - and while lacking in a bit of effective range, they will at least be able to still force the enemy to defend. But for sure to win in bvr, they will have to play it a bit more cautiously. Good thing is though, many of these platforms which use the shorter range fox3’s also have some great flight performance to kinematically defend effectively which means surviving till the fight closes the distance where their missiles excel is a bit easier too. Will be a cool dynamic imo
Important to point out, this is for monopulse seekers. Not that it discredited it, but talks about a specific seeker
its great that you’ve found an avenue to convey your problems.
But my issue is saying that the “majority” of the sim community agrees with multipath going away with little to no substantial proof. Convince me with numbers, not discord.
Just say “a part” , not a majority…
well i can’t confidently state that the full majority do, but in the sim servers that i frequent personally basically everyone seems to be in favor of these changes, and theres no way to measure it in terms of every single player, not all players frequent the forums either, the best one can do is state their subjective experience.
From the people who interacted with this thread, the majority seems to agree as well.
The majority in this thread seem to agree.
There’s as much proof as you’re going to get.
There isnt a need to constantly create new threads when the main one is still active. And due to the smaller nature of the playerbase in sim, the community members who are active on the forum are familiar with the all the sim posts and where the existing threads are which are talking about the issue they need to discuss. Its just a bit of a ‘cultural’ difference i guess between rb and sim players in so far as forum use is concerned - we just dont see new duplicate topics popping up at anywhere near the same rate. So yeah, since the threads which talk about multipathing are regularly active with replies and do feature the majority of responses within advocating for some realistic MP changes - it is indeed accurate to say that the large majority of the sim community do want MP effect reduced. And its been that way for a while, at a guess i would say healthy discussion around that topic in the sim section has been going on for the better part of a year at least - all ending with a similar consensus.
im going off topic here, i’ll end it before i go too far
Preach my guy, I wish ARB players would stop trying to turn SIM into ARB.
Makes no sense they try to convert a gamemode they don’t play, into RB clownfest.
Oh wow, most of them just “zomb” their way to top tier in their F-4S, or farm events by suiciding into airfields with rocket pods.
As long as multipath at least gets reworked for the more modern missiles and these “Sim players” stay away from top tier, fine by me. Let them enjoy their gameplay on Sim at lower BRs.
The only reason I want more vocal about it earlier was because taking chaff was impossible on a 60cm airplane. Now that they are split, that’s no longer as much an issue.
The topic is quite literally tagged [Simulator] because that’s the main discussion here, honestly RB does not need this change nearly as much as SB altough i think it would benefit from it as well.
In Sim multipathing 100% gets abused often and this can be observed on any maps with flat terrain, especially denmark where its mostly sea thats completely flat, everyone simply hugs the ground and forces the merge and hopes their IR missiles dont get flared, it leads to uninteresting and repetitive gameplay and really needs changing.
To any Dev reading this, one should strongly consider the Law of Primacy.
It comes from the education world, where it’s thoroughly established that the way humans FIRST learn to do something is often cemented in their minds. In other words, it’s harder to re-teach something differently, than it is to correctly teach them the first time. The Law of Primacy is practically worshipped by teachers and is hugely relevant in all aspects of learning.
So if ever there was a time to introduce proper BVR mechanics to the war Thunder player base, it’s NOW. Now that all nations are getting these missiles at the same time, in a patch where people will be experimenting and learning how to use them, now that we have separate key-binds for flares and chaff, this is the time!
If you wait, you risk ruffling even more feathers. Because once players think they’ve learned how to defeat these missiles, to then change something as big as multi pathing will take everyone completely off guard. So do it now while everyone’s brains are more pliable.