Real shatter 1.0.....2.0....3.0?

We have literal pictures and textbooks describing the effects of fragmentation, HEF, HEI and similar rounds in cannons.
A 20mm Minengeschoss from a Bf109 could and would rip a whole the sice of a cows head into a spitfires wing. If hit in the fuselage the hole on the impacted side would be as big but the other side would be riddled with hundreds of holes from the fragmentation.
And where did you read that there is no Fragmentation munition in modern belts? The US uses HEI in its Vulkan cannons. the germans also use HEI in their aircraft cannons. Yes the focus is no longer on surface detonation but we shifted from that during 1940. the german Minengeschoss is also a form, of HEI rather than HEF as it was to ebmed itself in the metal skin of the plame and explode inside of it.

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HEI yes. HEF I haven’t seen anything in my research yet.
I’m open to source material regardless of language.

Today Gajin increased the fragments of 20mm and 30mm cannons… Now the US AN 3s have 0-4 instead of 0-3 fragments and the Hispanos went from 1-4 to 1-5!


Thx for your update man! Do you have a source? Found nothing official…


Thx man - no clue why i could not find this with my own notification settings…

In today’s update we basically had a buff of 2 fragments per shell for 20mms.
It definitely helped some guns, however some still feel inconsistent - It’s a step in the right direction, hopefully there’s more improvements to come regarding realshatter.


An error that caused lack of fragment damage to parts of helicopters/aircraft when fragmentation munitions with a calibre of 20 mm or higher exploded inside the fuselage and wings has been fixed. This error caused damage to be lower after we implemented the realistic fragment spread mechanic since the fragments could pass from inside a target to outside via fuselage and wings without dealing damage. Now the fragments spread correctly and deal the same damage as before the implementation of the realistic spread.

It happened, guns work again.

Yep, Real Shatter is “fully” implemented now.

Like with all these updates. Ill reserve judgement for a few days. But i am very interested in giving it a go. See if spitfires for example, are playable again.

Non-Universal belts are playable for the first time in history.

Sweet, ive been rocking ground target ammo on the hispanos recently. So looking forward to going back to stealth or air target racks. There are always “edge-cases” with these updates. So im guessing its not entirely there, but a big step in the right direction.

Right now 20mm cannons went from underperforming to “everything outperforming MG151/20”.

Seriously, 2 shells from Shvak rip wings off, and that’s 12g of TNT for you.
Any hit to wing turns part of it black, and I’m talking about single shells.
Any hit near engine = engine damage, unless it’s MG151/20, then direct hit to the engine = absolutely 0 damage.

Well, we gotta have to wait for them to implement realshatter to Mg151’s and see how it will behave with the current buff.

Do MG151s have fragmenting rounds?

Flipside is you have been maining the F8 with mg151s and any other plane with 151s for the duration of realshatter’s buggy existence while everyone else just tickles you, time to suck it up a bit there bud and open another bug report for it)

Couple of games down with the Spitfire MkIX. Stealth racks are certainly usable again, but I’ve not observed any “OP” one shotting behaviour, all targets still took a reasonably large burst. I’d say for the first time in years, the hispanos are actually working as intended.

Try Shvaks and tell me they take “reasonably long bursts”. Planes disintegrate like they’re made of paper. 1 shell made P-51H lose its wingtip, while P-51H has notoriously strong wings.
Don’t know about hispanos but in many cases bad results are caused by:

  • wrong convergence setting
  • skill issue

Here you have the “very powerfull” MG151/20.
8 hits to the wing alone, 4 M-geschoss, 4 AP-I/IT - 2 struck fuel tank and can’t be seen in the picture for whatever reason.
As you can see, his wingtip is still there and if not for the fire, wing hits would not stop him (fire already did some damage in this picture!). I think I shot the engine 2-3 times, 1 hit from AP would only turn it yellow and we’re talking relatively small distance.
So as you can see, planes survived multiple MG151/20 shots just fine, and yer Shvak rips them apart.

Are you now complaining that cannons do damage again and you actually need to use your brain to stay OUT of enemy guns instead of just relying on guns doing no significant damage most of the times???

Instead, like many already did when they first brought realshatter and didn’t apply it to the mg151 and mk108, focus on getting it applied to those guns.

Also it’s not like mg151 does no damage, whenever I flew the Re2005 I was consistently still 1 tapping a lot of enemies or if need be, just spray them down for a certain kill.

Also, just example…

MG151/20 HEI

Shvak FI-T, exact same spot

Or, on the wing

MG151/20 HEI

Shvak FI-T, same spot again

No, with RealShatter they broke Hispano’s and ANM3s as well as most everything else (except for the MG151 and MK108), you’d had to use AP rounds to do any damage with those guns or get a pretty long burst in, they are fixed now. You can actually kill people again with those guns.


Real shatter got fixed to reasonable values around 10-12 days ago. Today they made Shvak on par/superior to MG151/20.
Module going black means it’s totally drained of HP. But Shvak seems to drain more HP than MG-151/20 which big module failure just as soon or sooner.
Shvak fires faster (non-historical) and has way better ballistics (extremely questionable). Which overal makes it superior.
I have shown you MG151/20 in practice in my screenshot. Shvak 1-shots P-51H wingtip out of existence. MG151/20 does not.

And MG151/20 should deal noticeably MORE damage than Shvak due to 4,5 times more powerfull explosive filler with v. similar shell weight. Also BTw Re.2005 has 3. And 2 12,7mm MGs.
Right now the only advantage is, MG151/20 may turn something a bit more distant yellow, but it can’t hurt the engine in many cases, as seen in my comparison on AM-1.
And this means it deals less damage around the point of impact.
Which is exact opposite of what should be happening.
Also MG151/20 passes through various parts of Soviet fighters without exploding, due to 0,4mm fuse which can be seen in protection analysis… Which makes it even worse overal.

And I don’t consider MG151/20 to be a “1 tapping weapon”. As seen in my P-51H screenshot, it clearly requires some prolonged clobbering in many cases. Re.2005 can do that thanks to excellent maneuvrability , 3 cannons and 2 MGs, so landing 12-15 shells is no issue.
With Shvak you often need to 1-click, then 2 shells with 12g TNT equivalent strike around the same area and boom, tail/wing gone.

Here the saving grace for MG151/20 are the squishy oil coolers. If not for them - the plane would be flying absolutely fine. Yet before the damage to oil coolers sets in, enemy may very well be gone and far away. 1 hit from Shvak and engine loses substantial chunk of its power.
And once again, we’re talking circa 6 vs 30g of TNT.
And guess what - MG151/20 will receive real shatter eventually too, as it absolutely should for the sake of consistence.

Right now there’s almost no difference from practical point of view between AN/M3 - 50% more mass, 32m/s more speed, way better speed retention, twice the explosive mass and Shvak.
And BTW these results are fairly random, what counts the most is the damage near the point of impact.

And if both hit the wing tip?
No difference at all, wing tip is gone in 1 shot.

Mid wing? Almost same result. And remember, AN/M3 will always have OVER twice the kinetic energy and twice the chemical energy and 50% more steel to form fragments. Can we see it here?

To sum it up - it’s not even about Shvak being waay superior ballisticaly, having better ROF and gun placement (only last one has basis in reality) compared to MG151/20 .
It’s about every 20mm in game hitting SO HARD it barely makes a difference. And in my opinion and experience, right now real-shatter cannons do more damage in the point of impact, which in my experience, translates into planes losing wings faster.
MG151/20 has advantage in killing pilots and damaging radiators and maybe in slowing the enemy down.
But if you want a wing gone? Just click it with any 20mm in game, including Ho-5.

MG151/20 for comparison, but yeah, I was getting black wing part too, but my point is - it’s not consistent.

EDIT: I’m sorry for 1000 edits, had to make this post a whole, to avoid unnecessary time wasting.