Yeah it’s super annoying. But they have so many reports that they can’t really be bothered to look at them for more than 5 seconds :/
Link?
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/6ecTQHLwQGHj
I think Alvis is trying to say is and isn’t a bug but forgot the n’t part. The devs stated the damage is correct and if people believe it isn’t they need to report by individual gun and belt.
No, people only get banned for challenging moderation or insulting mods.
Realshatter bug wasn’t in the datamine previously because its related to the code on how projectiles interact with the damage model and not related at all with the “number of fragments” or any of the data which can be found in the weapon files. We can’t proof with datamine that this bug is back, but fact is that all cannons do a LOT less damage again when using HE filler on all cannons based on experience in game. We seem to be exactly back at the point before realshatter was fixed…
So the topic here is either;
- The fix to realshatter and consequent boost to damage was unintentional and has been corrected, even though the community doesn’t like it
- They have unintentionally reverted the change, yet they don’t seem to be willing to have a look at it, which makes me think that, indeed, they didn’t want to boost the damage of all cannons as mentioned in point 1
Now the community wishes to have better damage on cannons so you don’t need to waste so much ammo and chase people around, or straight up lose because you couldn’t dispatch an enemy even though you crit and hit him multiple times - yet he still flies - SOMEHOW.
So, how to address this and convince Gaijin to bring back the damage of cannons after they “fixed” realshatter and make that the default (all while also fixing MG151/MK103/MK108 to the same level… because they were left out)?
That’s exactly what am trying to figure out while making the new report.
I had the idea to perhaps even add a screenshot of this specific changelog of 2.27.1.62 in an attempt to get them to double check that specific bug that’s likely happening again.
That was the one changelog that fixed the bug of the frag damage/ spread to aircraft/helicopters parts, making guns work decently.
Spoiler
This clip also shows pretty nicely the lack of fragment damage dealt to the helicopter parts, implying that it could indeed be the same issue as last time. The heli player only dies in the end thanks to a pilot snipe.
https://streamable.com/935moy
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Specifically related to the RealShatter simulation.
I played a lot of cannon armed fighter today. And for the most part, I finally feel like cannon damage is in a good place for MOST guns. M3 and NS-23 cannons still slap, Shavaks feel fairly reliable, and MG151’s are still very good. Hispanos have problems, and on my MiG 15 Bis, the 37mm sparks quite a bit, but overall I feel that gaijin have finally gotten cannon damage right. However, Mineshells not fusing on soviet planes is stupid. But other then those two guns, things feel generally reliable.
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Cannons went from strong to useless to nuke launchers and back to weak in a span of few months.
Gaijin seems to move between extremes all the time.
Meanwhile magical bug making MG151/20 pass through soviet aircraft without exploding happily persists.
Soviet aircraft are the hardest to kill in my experience, by far, basically Yak-3 and La-7 can take my Fw 190 D9 to “Hit!” land and I don’t think it’s a coincidence I sometimes only land AP and need 3 succesful passes to do anything significant - I don’t have such issues with Spitfires f.e.
I need miliseconds on target vs F8F f.e.
This feels kinda wrong.
MG151/20 shouldn’t rip tails off in 1 hit.
FI-T shouldn’t make the engine red when it flies along the engine, strikes the cowling and 1 fragment hits the engine.
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I would not call them weak now. Most cannons feel like they do the same amount of damage as before realshatter. The only real exceptions to that rule are hispanos and shavaks, with shvaks being made reasonable and hispanos being destroyed. Overall I find the changes pretty good, with some tweaks being needed.
In my experience with the 151, its not ripping tails off as much as obliterating control surfaces, control wires, and causing a shitload of fires. Also versus larger aircraft, it feels like the 30mm is actually a useful tradeoff for a 151.
Well, the damage is inconsistent across the board.
F.e. HE real shatter shells deal a TON of engine damage even at extremely weird angles.
MG151/20 can explode 20cm away from engine and nothing happens, only direct/almost direct hits count, which kinda makes sense, even if the pretty solid (a lot.of steel) nose of the shell in reality would get propelled forward by the explosive in a few big chunks and do some severe damage in a cone in front of the explosion.
Gaijin has to fix fuses and adjust the damage, so Type 99 Mk2, Hispano and AN/M series.guns slap noticeably harder than Shvak or Ho-5, meanwhile AP vs HE damage needs to get readjusted across the board depending on the target type.
Also the weird pwrformance of German fuses vs Soviet aircraft needs to be addressed.
And finally MG151/20 should also get transformed into real sh*tter cannon, but with proper HE damage advantage.
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I always found it weird that the 151 was left out of realShatter. At least, the damage on most cannons feels weaker, but it’s consistent. Notably absent from that consistency are Hispanos, N-37, M-39/M-61,
and Aden/Defa, though with Adens they feel a lot more reliable then before Realshatter. I cant really comment on navy cannons for the Japanese, I don’t really have them.
Edit: played the 152 a lot today, and the 151’s were working great
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Well, with Mineshells, there’s not really much “Shatter” going on.
Take a 20mm Mineshell. Weighs roughly 92g.
27g is the Fuze.
18.6g is explosive filler.
Gain 2-4g.
Leaves 45g for the body that will burst into hundreds of 0.1-0.5g fragmets that carry hardly any energy, with only the fuze having enough steel to create a few effective fragments.
Compare that to a same size Oerlikon or Hipano shell weighing 130g, carrying 10g filler.
With a 30g fuze and gain that means twice the mass of steel for the rest of the body which will break into fewer heavier fragments, that can actually travel some distance and penetrate structure without losing their energy instantly.
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Thats fair. and its not like the damage is particularly bad
Guide ring area in the rear of M-geschoss will form a few semi-decent fragments. Other than that - you’re absolutely right.
In case of M-geschoss, there should be v. few “serious” fragments going to the sides, very decent and “highly energised” amount going forward, and majority of damage should be from explosion itself.
2 Likes
Gsh-23 and NR-30 are completely ruined now.
Guys I finally made the 2nd bug report with many clips that I got from here/ ppl on discord, support it if you had issues with guns recently.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/KshbrZ3AfCbW
3 Likes
Video comparison (before and after) here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1864w4u/ive_noticed_a_significant_unannounced_nerf_to/
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Seems my MiG guns are useless again like when Real Shatter was bugged.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1150972398867316749/1181233456026501211/image.png?ex=65805062&is=656ddb62&hm=fda87e7a0eef13bf9ab23dead2854a77183c59af7d07d619f7823211de589859&
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In one game I shot down 4 planes with the Su-9.
In two cases I set fires that had the plane burn down after 10-60s.
One Pilot snipe the other I shot off a wing tip and he crashed shortly afterwards.
A plane will be severly crippled after getting hit with a burst of 23mm and 37mm cannons. In a lot of cases they don’t make it back to base or are just out of the fight.
Just because not everytime a shell connects a “Aircraft Destryoed” message pops up, doesn’t mean that the guns are useless.
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