Well, with Mineshells, there’s not really much “Shatter” going on.
Take a 20mm Mineshell. Weighs roughly 92g.
27g is the Fuze.
18.6g is explosive filler.
Gain 2-4g.
Leaves 45g for the body that will burst into hundreds of 0.1-0.5g fragmets that carry hardly any energy, with only the fuze having enough steel to create a few effective fragments.
Compare that to a same size Oerlikon or Hipano shell weighing 130g, carrying 10g filler.
With a 30g fuze and gain that means twice the mass of steel for the rest of the body which will break into fewer heavier fragments, that can actually travel some distance and penetrate structure without losing their energy instantly.
Guide ring area in the rear of M-geschoss will form a few semi-decent fragments. Other than that - you’re absolutely right.
In case of M-geschoss, there should be v. few “serious” fragments going to the sides, very decent and “highly energised” amount going forward, and majority of damage should be from explosion itself.
In one game I shot down 4 planes with the Su-9.
In two cases I set fires that had the plane burn down after 10-60s.
One Pilot snipe the other I shot off a wing tip and he crashed shortly afterwards.
A plane will be severly crippled after getting hit with a burst of 23mm and 37mm cannons. In a lot of cases they don’t make it back to base or are just out of the fight.
Just because not everytime a shell connects a “Aircraft Destryoed” message pops up, doesn’t mean that the guns are useless.
Fourth hit: Hits into the already damaged fuel tank destroying it and killing the Pilot as well as the control cables. Not sure what type of ammo. A 37mm AP could have caused the damage but also a combination of 23mm API and FI-T
Conclusion:
The ammunition is working as expected. The rounds have the ability to down an aircraft in a single hit.
Just don’t expect any hit on an aircraft to instantly bring it down.
Any hit that isn’t near a module like fuel and engine is at best causing drag and issues with the flight performance.
The aircraft was destroyed after landing approximately 5-6 23mm rounds and 1-2 37mm but when modules are hit an aircraft can also go down in 2-3 23mm hits or a single 37mm hit.
The last attack would proably have been enough to destroy the aircraft without prior damage.
I think the only issue I see is that a 23mm FI-T should have set the fuel tank on fire.
There’s just no way the fuel tank wouldn’t be destroyed with a direct hit from above.
But maybe that fuel tank isn’t even filled when someone takes min. fuel.
Probably there may be a problem with the damage model.
If the tail section were critically damaged, the fuselage of the A-4E should be able to break in half, but we have not seen the fuselage break on most jets, let alone the A-4E, in recent years like that.
As far as I know, the Me 262/Super Mystere B2/Sa’ar, F8U, and F-8E can rip the fuselage in half if you given damages on tail, but the other jets doesn’t since 2019 or 2020 for somehow.
Also, while looking back at old MiG clips, it seems to me that fuel tank explosions happen significantly less frequently than they once did. Up until a few years ago MiG guns could literally explode targets, as in this clip, but these days it only happens with ADEN/DEFA.
It is not my clip but, would explain how old MiG guns worked back then.
When you compare NS-37mm FI-T to N-37 37mm HEFI the difference is that without realShatter the round deals a massive amount of damage to the structure while with realShatter the shell deals much less damage to the structure but more damage to components that would get hit by shell fragments.
So with realShatter the rounds behave much more realistic and don’t make planes explode like they’ve been hit by a R4M 55mm rocket.
Unless it’s a Mineshell, the explosive has a very limited effect on the structure of a plane and only really serves to fragment the shell to increase the likelihood of damaging components.
30mm ADENs are the result of the evaluation of 30mm Mineshell damage against fighter and bomber while the US went with a high density of 20mm shells instead, since 20mm cannnons have a very good performance to weight ratio.
Mineshells destroy structure, explosive rounds cause damage to engines, pilots and fuel cells.
Here let’s have a look at 30mm ADENs vs 37mm NS-37:
ADENs 30mm HEFI Mineshells weigh just slighty more than 23mm FI-T or API but they carry more explosive than 37mm HEFI.
The result:
ADENS deal more damage to the structure → Turns tail black
While 37mm HEFI deals much more fragmentation damage → Turns engine red or black
23mm FI-T can cause more damage to the engine due to greater fragmentation damage but ADENs cause tails and wings to be blown off, and probably are also lethal when they hit fuel tanks.
It would explain about fuel tank explosions but, ripping tail section is not real shatter issues.
I have done some research on tail section damage models before Real Shatter was implementd almost every cannons with Vonarian who is part of technical moderator. @Vonarian_aka_Ardeshir (I’m sorry for ping)
The aircraft I mentioned in my previous post can lose their tail section even from damage from 50cals as well just like lose their wings or wing tips due to damage sustained. However, other aircraft never lose their tail section no matter how much damage they do with ADEN/DEFA for somehow.
I’m finding the video what I did with him last year comparing tail section damage models right now so, if I can find it I will post it on this topic.
Last time when realshatter was bugged it wasn’t a bug with the HE filler but a bug with the interaction with the DM, I wouldn’t be surprised its the same thing again
Guns just do barely anything at all, especially against bombers… just a streak of black puffs and few things falling off… in the server replay his entire plane is black, yet you hit black parts, plane just doesnt take more damage… https://streamable.com/bydhre
