- Yes.
- No.
- In a future Dutch/BeNeLux techtree.
- In the French BeNeLux sub-tree.
- Other (Please explain in the comments).
- I said “No” in the first question.
- As laid down (2 x 230mm) ← Muzzleloading guns, as a joke ofcourse
- 1882’s refit (1 x 280mm, 7 x 37mm)
- I said “No” in the first question.
Today I’m going to suggest a real old ship of the Dutch Navy.
This is the “Ramtorenschip 2de klasse” HNLMS Stier (1868)!
HNLMS Stier in her final days. She’s already been stripped of her guns here and is ready to be used for aerial bombing excercises
Source: https://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=103005466
About the “Ramtorenschip 2de klasse” classification
As the name suggests, what this simply means is turret ram ship 2nd-class. And there is something interesting about this. Back in the day when ships like these were being built, the Dutch Navy didn’t quite use “proper” class names for their ships.
Nowadays we all know ships by their class names, Yamato-class battleship, Admiral Hipper-class cruiser, etc etc.
What the Dutch Navy had back in the day was a more simple system using 1st and 2nd-class names to group certain ships together. HNLMS Stier (1868) was not the only turret ram ship 2nd-class, there were three more. These four ships were build in three different shipyards, and so the ships all different in design. But all four of the ships had a primary gun turret, and all ships fulfilled the same role they were designed for. Therefor the four ships were put under the same classification of “Ramtorenschip 2de klasse”.
A very nice illustration showing the different hull and bow designs of different turret ram ships of the Dutch Navy. Top and bottom left is the HNLMS Prins Hendrik der Nederlanden, which is a turret ram ship 1st-class, but all the others are the turret ram ship 2nd-class. Here we perfectly see the differences between the ships. Two of the ships (Buffel and Guinea) were build at the same dockyard however, so these are the same in design.
Source: “Zr.Ms. Schorpioen, Van ramschip tot museumschip” book by Jan Klootwijk and Dick VriesIf we wanted to be super specific about the classification of the HNLMS Stier (1868), and it’s “sister ships”, then this is how we would do it:
- Turret ram ship 2nd-class
- Buffel-type
- HNLMS Buffel (1868)
- HNLMS Guinea (1870)
- Schorpioen-type
- HNLMS Schorpioen (1868)
- Stier-type
- HNLMS Stier (1868)
History
Spoiler
HNLMS Stier being used for aerial bombing excercises
Source: Foto'sHNLMS Stier was launched and commissioned in 1868. The Dutch Navy didn’t have any experience with the construction of these new turret ship designs, so she would be made abroad, at the “John Laird, Son & Company”, Birkenhead, England.
HNLMS Stier would stay in the homewaters of the Netherlands for all of her carreer. She would mostly be send out to protect Dutch fishng vessels.
We sadly have no information about anything noteworthy she took part in during her carreer as a turret ship. What we do know is that she was stripped of her guns and taken out of service in 1908, only to come back again in 1915 as a floating magazine. Later in 1925 she was used for aerial bombing excercises, which must have been succesfull since she sank during those excercises.
Her wreck was succesfully salvaged in September of 1930.
Design
Spoiler
A blueprint of the 1882 refit where the 28 cm A No. 1 breachloading gun was added to the turret
Source: | Nationaal ArchiefHNLMS Stier was 59,43 metres long, had a beam of 11,58 metres and a draft of 4,87 meters, and had a displacement of 2.112 tons. She had a crew of 110 men (This was later expanded to 137) and was able to reach a top speed of 10,83 knots.
[u]She was originally armed with a two 23 cm RML 9-inch Armstrong guns in one central turret.
These guns had acces to various AP and Schrapnel rounds. But ofcourse these are muzzle loading guns, and those don’t really fit ingame at all.Thankfully the ship went through a refit in 1882 that saw the removal of these muzzle loading guns and had them replaced with a single 28 cm A No. 1 breachloading gun.
This gun was capable of firing Common, AP and Canister rounds.During this 1884 refit seven 37mm Hotchkiss guns were added too. Two five barrel revolving guns were added to each side of the rear superstructure. And five single barrel guns were added, with three at the front, one in the front crows nest, and one at the very rear.
HNLMS Stier was protected by a 152 - 76 mm thick belt. The deck was 25 - 19 mm thick, and the command tower was 114 mm.
The gun turret was 280 - 203 mm thick.
A blueprint of the lower decks of HNLMS Stier
Source: | Nationaal Archief
Ingame
Spoiler
The HNLMS Stier would be a real weird ship to add ingame. The current Naval gamemode is not really made for these very old ships. This ship would be best added in some sort of Pre-WW1 Naval gamemode for it to be really fun to play ingame. HNLMS Stier is very closely related to 1860’s to 1900’s monitors. Luckily HNLMS Stier does have a breachloading gun that is still capable of dishing out some damage against lower rank Naval Vessels. If Stier had to be added somewhere ingame right now, I would say put her in the Coastal Fleet. I think a ship like her is best added there.
Now where should these boats go to? As usualy with my Dutch vehicle suggestions, I ofcourse want to see this ingame in a Dutch or BeNeLux techtree. Ofcourse the BeNeLux has been added to France, so this is now the only option where Dutch vessels will go to.
I’m not very well versed with early French Naval stuff, so I don’t know if France has many ships like HNLMS Stier. But in the French tree the HNLMS Stier would most likely fit right in with other older French vessels.
Specifications
Spoiler
Displacement: 2.112 tons
Length: 59,43 m
Beam: 11,58 m
Draft: 4,87 m
Powerplant: 2 x steam engines, 4 x boilers
Power output: 2.257 hp
Maximum speed: 10,83 knots (20 km/h)
Crew: 110 men (This was increased to 137, but unclear during what time this was)Armor:
Belt: 152 - 76 mm
Deck: 25 - 19 mm
Command tower: 114 mm
Turret: 280 - 203 mmArmament: (As laid down)
1 x 2 23 cm RML 9-inch Armstrong muzzleloading guns1882 refit:
1 x 1 28 cm A No. 1 breachloading gun
2 x 5 37 mm Hotchkiss revolving guns
5 x 1 37 mm Hotchkiss gunsAmmunition:
23 cm RML 9-inch Armstrong muzzleloading gun
- [AP] Iron Projectile
–Length: 68 cm
–Weight: 105 kg- [AP] Hardened Projectile
–Length: 52 cm
–Weight: 112 kg- [AP] Steel Projectile
–Length: 51 cm
–Weight: 109 kg- [AP] Pointed Bullet (“Puntkogel”)
–Length: 46 cm
–Weight: 113 kg- [Schrapnel] Three types were used, all of the same weight
–Length: Unknown
–Weight: 68.5 kg28 cm A No. 1 breachloading gun
- [Common] Gewone granaat v/ 28cm A L2,8
–Projectile: 206,7 kg round with a 9,3 kg filling, for a total weight of 216 kg
–Charge: 60 kg prismatic gunpowder No. 2
–Velocity: 510 mps- [AP] Glasharde Puntgranaat v/ 28cm A L2,8
–Projectile: 251 kg round with a 2,7 kg filling, for a total weight of 253,7 kg
–Charge: 58,5 kg prismatic gunpowder No. 2
–Velocity: 475 mps (453,5 mps when fired with 50 kg prismatic gunpowder No. 1)
–Penetration: 454 mm of iron at 0 meters- [AP] Stalen Puntgranaat v/ 28cm A L2,8 (1ste model)
–Projectile: 247,25 kg round with a 4,95 kg filling, for a total weight of 252,2 kg
–Charge: 58,5 kg prismatic gunpowder No. 2
–Velocity: 475 mps (453,5 mps when fired with 50 kg prismatic gunpowder No. 1)
–Penetration: 454 mm of iron at 0 meters- [AP] Stalen Puntgranaat v/ 28cm A L2,8 (2de & 3de model)
–Projectile: 250 kg round with a 3,7 kg filling, for a total weight of 253,7 kg
–Charge: 58,5 kg prismatic gunpowder No. 2
–Velocity: 475 mps (453,5 mps when fired with 50 kg prismatic gunpowder No. 1)
–Penetration: 454 mm of iron at 0 meters- [Canister] Kartetsgranaat v/ 28cm A
–Projectile: 124 kg round filled with 251 zinc balls of 0,368 kg each.
–Charge: Unknown
–Velocity: Unknown
HNLMS Stier in dock. If you zoom in you will see the various 37mm Hotchkiss guns added to her during the 1882 refit
Source: File:IJ (Afgesloten), foto 17 Jacob Olie (max res).jpg - Wikimedia Commons
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And there you have it! I hope you enjoyed reading about interesting ship of the Dutch Navy.
See you on the battlefield!
Sources
Spoiler
History and information:
- “Zr.Ms. Schorpioen, Van ramschip tot museumschip” book by Jan Klootwijk and Dick Vries
- Pantserschepen - ONZE MARINE VLOOT
Extra sources:
Photos:
Blueprints: