I mean that is also because 14.3 is a mess in general. It’s pretty much:
Rafale >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> EFT(s) >>>>> everything else (well to be fair “everything else” at 14.3 is only the Su-30SM and F-15C GE currently).
And it’s only going to get worse when they add the AESA EFT or god forbid an even better Rafale version.
i dont think that the aesa ef will change much in the grand scheme of things unless it gets new hobs missiles
and for a better rafale variant…
the one we have ingame is already akin to be a rafale C F4
with the rafale c f3r we are supposed to have ingame entered service in 2018,currently the most modern top tier jet 8n the game
It will make quite a few planes likr the J-10C and probably Gripen E dead before/on arrival while also completelt killing the F-15C GE (a lot of people already argue it as dead though, but the AESA EFT will be the final nail in the coffin).
It will be by far the best BVR plane with also solid WVR performance, until we maybe get something like an F-15EX that might possibly contest it for that BVR title.
By “Conventional BVR combat” are you referring to sub 100km range expected of missiles like the AIM-120’s and MICA from the last millennium, or are you referring to the ~200km shots we’re starting to see nowadays from missiles like PL-15E and R-37M? Cuz if its the latter:
EuroFIRST PIRATE has been estimated at around 50nmi frontally (~93km)
and other numbers I cant find off-hand. Either way, even assuming the OLS-35 was underreporting its range by a factor of 5, and the PIRATE estimates are off by a factor of 50%, and assuming all other IRST sensors are in the same (VERY generous) range class of ~150km against a front aspect target, things like Meteor (Europe’s current mainstay BVR missile), PL-15 (Chinas mainstay BVR missile), R-37M (not russias primary BVR weapon, but certainly one they’re using a whole lot), and likely all the other current BVR weapons either in low rate production or in testing (AIM-174B/PL-17/PL-21/AIM-260/R-77M/etc…) we have no numbers for yet all outrange these IRST systems theoretical absolute best detection ranges.
This is also beyond the fact that detection does not mean guidance, so even if they can tell theres something there, they likely wont be able to guide anything reliably on target at those kinds of ranges. If IRST was such a silver bullet to the stealth situation, nobody would even bother building stealth jets, they’re massive more expensive to develop, manufacture, and maintain, they’re massively overkill for 99% of the mission sets jets perform nowadays, and they force the designers hand, because there’s only so many shapes that help with stealth, and they arent all conducive to all other aspects of the aircraft. If a cheap solution like IRST invalidated stealth, stealth would be a technological dead end we’d all be laughing about when reading research papers, not the present and future of combat aviation.
What @ron_23 said is accurate, WT maps are too small. Theyre too small for stealth to work, and they’re too small for even the current missiles and jets in-game to really stretch their legs (if our current missile seekers werent so worthless in the first place).
I doubt it, both have similar or better missile counts, similar AESA and EW (in gripen’s case), better or equivalent FM with J-10C.
They’ll be a lot closer than you seem to make out, especially if we don’t see any missile powercreep
Poor wording on my end, I was referring to the current BVR combat we see in war thunder, as spotting, radar and RWR are currently the main tools of detection and situational awareness, when stealth are added, the performance of radar will dip, and be succeeded by IRST & datalink.
Then there wasnt much of a point of even responding to ron’s post about maps being too small if you fundamentally agree with what he said???
I was agreeing with him anyway?
Not every post must be an argument =D
Good news is, they cant actually add a “better Rafale variant” cuz they effectively went straight for the best one that exists and then just called it something else. The only thing missing is meteor and MICA IR/NG variants. Next Rafale added is gonna be a copy paste of this one with new missiles.
Didnt seem that way, but my bad for the misunderstanding
The only notable additions they could add over the current rafale would be Meteor (only 4) and some other minor weaponry/avionic changes.
Functionally in game we have the F4 already, since it has extra MICAs and HMD.
And mark my words, when it’s time to add the F4, they’ll take the HMD and MICAs off of the F3R and put it down in BR
Best will probably be Su-35 unless gaijin makes some serious changes to basically everything about air battles in WT at this point.
Has a gimballed ESA like the EFT (there isnt really much of a difference between PESA and AESA in-game atm), but it has better gimbal angles, more missiles, and better missiles.
That, or the Rafale will still stay on top cuz of its space magic fm and MICA missiles. Either way, Rafale will be top 3 best jets in-game even if its dethroned, probably until gaijin shuts WT down in ~2027.
Nah they wont, thatd be admitting they made a mistake, and gaijin would never let that slide.
I mean probably, the Su-30SM is already an amazing BVR platform due to sheer force of volume, the Su-35 echos that and is just flat out better, so I guess we’ll see what gaijin cooks up to counter it
Even if they were to add AESA EFT right now it sadly wouldnt close the gap at all, as it is still left with the same bonkers FM but the same absolute worst weapons kit of both all the 14.3’s AND 14.0’s.
Given that current mscan radar IMO isnt half bad, AESA would bring QOL more than actual gameplay advantage.
not on the EF and Gripen they both get an AESA which have a gimbal that is greater than 90°
but i dont think that that is enough to close the gap to the rafale
I play sim (or played, I dont really play this trash game anymore), so a good radar is worth its weight in gold, particularly with the change to the cons altitude, but i could kind of see where you’re coming from saying the radar wont be that big of a deal, but I kind of disagree. Being able to track a target through your own notch should make missiles harder to defeat, while keeping you safer. So it is a notable buff in both offensive and defensive capabilities, the real question is just how much does it close the gap with the most handheld jet and community in WT history.
It won’t close the gap with the Rafale, but it will drastically increase the gap with the F-15C GE.
Then again, you could argue that 14.3 is already questionable for the GE so maybe the AESA EFT could finally push Gaijin to move it to 14.0.
The EFT should still have a considerably better BVR flight performance though iirc.
or to increase max BR again
to maybe 14.7 or 15.0
Or gaijin can just buff all other ARH seekers so it’s harder to get within the MICA’s effective range
On one hand, I have certain doubts they will bother to model that and will just give those 85 degrees like J10 or something.
On the other, as far as I remember current ESA tricks (tracking outside scan zone, 180deg. roll stab…) came alongside su30, a new toptier ESA carrier. So there’s a big chance.
I generally agree, but I don’t trust Gaijin to not move the F-15C GE up with the others.
I mean just look at ground.
