Radpanzer M6 (20mm), Swiss auto-cannon Staghound

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caid’s suggestion #53

I suggest an interesting armoured car for the game and a possible Swiss tech tree. the Radpanzer M6 20mm

The Radpanzer M6 20mm, also often called online the Staghound 20mm, was a T17 Staghound that was modified by Eidgenössische Konstruktionswerkstätte to carry 20mm gun. In the late 40s, Switzerland needed to modernize their army and acquired ex-ww2 vehicles which was available in large numbers and at low prices in Europe. in 1951, Switzerland acquired 64x T17 armoured car that featured high mobility and was theoretically a perfect reconnaissance and escort car for the Swiss terrain. Alpine’s road was known to be rather tight and dangerous for vehicles with lower manoeuvrability. while the firepower of the 37mm was obsolete, the chassis was still capable of giving the needed performance. The Swiss army handed 5x of those T17 to Eidgenössische Konstruktionswerkstätte for testing eventual rearming. this weapon manufacturer is fitted with a 20mm HS 820 auto-cannon. this armament gives the vehicles an updated firepower fit for light targets such as other armoured cars and also infantry if needed. this prototype was an experimental vehicle built in the 50s but was not retained for services. besides the 20mm, the hull machine gun was also changed for a local LMG which was probably a tank version of the MG-51 that fired Swiss 7.5x55 rounds.

Firepower

the firepower of the armoured car is quite interesting. featuring a rather powerful auto-cannon, it could penetrate any WW2 vehicle. but this vehicle was from the Cold War. this armament was mainly intended to fight light armoured vehicles such as the IFV and APC used for surveillance and support the infantry. the high fire rate allows this vehicle to get rip off its targets in no time as soon as there is a penetration. the APHE is also available for this armament which greatly improves the post-penetration damage in exchange for a little penetration minus. on the scale, this armament would have difficulty destroying anything more protected than a Russian T-34. the turret offers a rather good elevation but the depression, while enough, is not very impressive. the exact gun’s elevation is yet to be confirmed, but it can be assumed to be the same as the original T17 which is -7°/+40°. while the elevation allows it to aim at aircraft, the rotation of the turret is not so fast and does not easily allow it to follow low-flying aircraft. but it is still powered and should reach around 24°/sec (like most American light tanks of this era)

Mobility

the T17 is powered by two GMC Straight Six-cylinder 270ci, 4400cc providing 97 hp at 2750 rpm. this gives a total of 194 hp which is not bad for an armoured car. the weight just below 14 tonnes on the original version shouldn’t have significant change due to the new armament. the transmission is a General Motors Twin Hydramatic offering 4 forward speeds and 1 backward. the transmission is improved by a torque-converted General Motors Two Speed which converts the torque into high and low ratio according to the need which greatly improves mobility off-road and acceleration in general. this allows a top speed of 89 km/h on the road. the reverse speed should give around 15 km/h which is by itself enough to be capable of correcting the manoeuvre when needed, going around obstacles or pulling out of dangerous situations. The exact weight is still to be confirmed but the T17E1 weight is 13.92 tonnes which should be close to the weight of this vehicle too. until the weight is confirmed, I suggest using the T17E1’s weight as place placeholder. this should give a power/weight of 13.94 hp/ton which is not impressive but still pretty good.

Protection

The armour of the Radpanzer M6 with 20mm remains unchanged from the T17E1. it remains light but happens to be sturdy enough to protect against HMG fire in most circumstances. the front of the hull is well-sloped and still protected by 22mm of armour giving an effectiveness of around 30mm which makes it difficult to penetrate by HMG and even allows it to take some low-rank main gun from 37mm. the side is less protected but still has 19mm of armour which is enough to protect against HMG at some distance if there is some angle. the turret is much more protected offering 44mm of armour at the front with 45° angle which gives around 55mm of effective armour and 25.4 mm of armour is added by the gun’s shield. the turret also has 31.7 mm of armour on the side and rear which makes it capable of taking HMG at any distance. the roof of both the hull and the turret have 12.7mm of armour which usually is enough against 12.7mm rounds from aircraft but not for the 20mm. the crew of 5 men including 3 men in the turret and 2 men in the hull make for a rather large crew for an armoured car.

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Armament

Vehicles

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1 Like
2

Always found this to be a quirky vehicle. +1

3

This is nearly the same photo, taken from an ever so slightly lower angle, but in this one all the armament appears to be removed? The serial number shows that this is the same vehicle

staghound20mm
staghound20mm1200×807 161 KB

staghound20mm2
staghound20mm21200×781 160 KB

3 Likes
4

that is the other way around

all the armament was added. the Swiss acquired the Staghound from a civilian seller in UK. As it was civilian, the vehicles were all decommissioned and unarmed. Switzerland acquired a bunch of T17E1 and T17E2. none armed

as the vehicle was stored outside for years, it turned out to be in a very bad state. the seller had lied about the vehicles being in good condition. only 2-3 were in working order when they arrived in Switzerland. and turn out repairing them and arming them was expensive. too expensive to worth the cost and also because it was not good in the Swiss Alpine terrain. what was seen as a good deal turned out to be a terrible money-costing deal.

they considered scrapping them as early as 1956, when most of them were not even armed

2 Likes
5

but regardless, the vehicle is good for the game

6

I see, thanks for the answer

1 Like
7

That is not the 20mm HS.820. Which can be confirmed by comparing images of HS.820.

Instead, the pictured vehicle is likely armed with the 30mm HS.831.

Supposedly the Swiss installed several autocannons between 20-34mm in a Radpanzer M6, and the above image was mislabelled at some point.

1 Like
8

It was confirmed in the Swiss archive that they had installed a 20mm HS 820. It was also confirmed that two weapons were considered for the rearmament: the 20mm auto-cannon and the 47mm gun. A 30 mm was never considered, at the very least, there is no mention of it. It was just unrealistic, likely due to the size of the gun and the ammunition to carry. This vehicle does not have a lot of space for 200 30mm rounds.

The fender is just there to allow the barrel to cool down faster. It does not change the gun’s origin.

seriously since those posts on Reddit, people keep coming back with the 30mm HS 831.

Do you think this can fit inside the turret? with a belt feed maybe, if there was no gunner on the way and a larger turret to store more than the magazine in the gun.

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9

The Swiss may have installed the HS.820 in a Radpanzer M6, but it is clearly not the vehicle pictured.

You’re right it’s not the HS.831 either and so it seems more research needs to be done to figure out what gun it is.

y1YrA5c
y1YrA5c1920×1920 313 KB

With a modified feed mechanism? Absolutely. Not to mention that since the vehicle wasn’t adopted it wouldn’t be surprising if the installation was deemed to have such flaws as being too cramped or carried too little ammunition.

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