The stats say that the r60m and the mk (germany export) are the same, then why is the r60mk less susceptible to being flared in my experience? I have eaten so many r60mk’s head on even with non afterburning planes with engine temps below 600 and flaring, from 1km away.
Does it have more something to do with the fact that the MiG21 Lazur is more common than the normal MiG21 Bis (and the most seen supersonic with all aspect r60 missiles) and the speed at which the missile is launched makes it harder to see flares?
They are the same. It’s the exact same missile.
In real life the only difference is the manufacturer for the proxy fuze
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Then the explanation might be the speed at which the missile is coming. Same as how aim9e’s ignore flares if the target is moving much slower than the launching platform itself.
well just now i had my r60m (on mig21bis standard) sniffing through the flares of a tornado but it didn’t strike because it ran out of energy for a bad launch
Had I been faster and launched from true rear aspect the missile would hit.
1 to 1 copy
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As mentioned they’re Identical other than name, that would be the Jingle-jangle fallacy with a bit of confirmation bias.
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neither you nor Leinadmix read when i said that the possible reason these missiles might ignore flares is that the main r60mk platform are mig21s that are fast enough for the missile to simply not see flares while the most common r60m platforms are su25s, against which you barely need flares to defeat these.
that dosent change that they are functionally the same missile and the platform they are on dosent change the behavior of the missile
ontop of that there are multiple platforms that are not the Su-25 that carry the r-60m
- Mig-21bis
- Mig-23M
- Mig-23ML
- Mig-23MLD
- Mig-27K
- Mig-27M
- Su-17M4
- Su-24M
- YAK-141
- Mig-29 (9.13)
you can do the exact same with a Su-25 if you know when to launch at something
i have admitted they’re the same missile like half an hour later after posting this topic.
IR signatures are not handled by engine temps. its to do with the thrust output of the engine. This is why things like the Harriers are hotter at lower airspeeds than they are when at higher airspeeds and why the F-5s on full reheat are ice cold.
Dozens of variables are at play. Launch speed could give the missile more energy meaning it hits the target before seeing a flare. Launch angle might also help a lot too. By locking on and dragging the seekers boresight to the edge, you can greatly improve flare resistance. The target you are firing at is huge. A harrier at low air speed cannot flare an R-60 fired even at longer ranges, but an F-5 on full reheat can probably 1 tap flare at any distance.
even the weather probably has an impact
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the f-5 on full afterburner and transonic can deter magic 2s from further than 2km away. Most of the r60mks i ate were launched below 800m. Now that I remember, why do I complain about this if i kill many mig23s head on with aim9e?
