Difference between F2 and G is quite large with the F2 having the old frontal armor that is paper thin
3.7 matchmaker is not as good as 3.3 matchmaker… the difference between those two is larger than the difference in tank performance
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Marginal difference not worth an uptier over. Italy G should be 3.3 with German G or german G should be brought up
What’s going on?
Germany best nation at 1.0-2.0 but then they get completely steam rolled?
Also why does Italy suck so much? Their 1.0-2.0 vehicles are generally pretty good and the 47mm APHE is a nuke round, even though it was nerfed in penetration recently.
If we attribute it to new players, then it must be because they lack the knowledge to effectively use their low tier Italian tanks while German vehicles seems to be more user friendly.
Both Pz II and III had their turret traverse buffed and both feature very strong firepower, armor and pretty good survivability compared to other low tier tanks.
Seal hunting … Sd.Kfz.234/1, Sd.Kfz.222 + PzIV F1
The number of battles in Italian vehicles in the area is just 10% compared to the German ones.
That brings us back to the seal hunt.
I think it helps the players who welcome our new players.
The last BRs and map changes were specially bad for germany.
Why do others manage to deal with it? That rather speaks in favour of a lack of willingness to adapt. So far, I have always found new ways and possibilities on the maps to use my vehicle accordingly.
Just go and compare Germany 6.3, 7.0, 7.3 and 7.7 with the other 2 big nations and you can see why.
Your stats with Leo 1 for example say the opposite.
Germany between 5.3 to 8.0 are tanks designed for long range combat and Gaijin are removing every spot and map with long range combat possiblities.
These Leo 1 statistics are from my early days. I went too far up too fast. Then I limited myself to 6.7 and started other nations.
Haven’t touched the Leo since.
Especially on the few maps where you can still shoot at long distances, I often see players going into the CQB areas.
I often play scout and keep a very close eye on what my team is doing because I want to help clear up vehicles. Of course, this works better at long distances.
Not really.
Both the M4 Shermans and T-34 variants at equal BR’s are better overall vehicles.
Perhaps there’s a case to be made that all three are undertiered together, but I’m more inclined to think the minor nations’ vehicles are overtiered instead.
The Ausf. H is virtually identical to the Ausf. G at 3.3, and the Ausf. G is already overshadowed by the T-34 and M4 Sherman at that BR.
I have no idea what makes you think a Pz.Kpfw. IV H deserves to be so ludicrously high as 4.3. That’s nearly the same BR as a KV-1 ZiS-5 which curbstomps a Pz.Kpfw. IV H.
That argument doesn’t seem to hold up because there’s inconsistencies here: The Swedish Sherman III/IV and German KV-1B
The KV-1B is essentially a KV-1 ZiS-5 sidegrade, yet somehow sits 0.7 BR lower in the German tech tree.
The Sherman III/IV sits at the same BR as a M4 Sherman, dispite the Swedish variant having superior mobility and armour.
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If the KV-1s actually bothered angling, sure…
Pz IVs are stupidly undertiered. They are not any weaker than M4s or T-34s. F2 is arguable, but G definitely doesn’t belong at 3.3. It is an obvious 3.7. So does the H at 3.7, just like T-34s were uptiered recently Pz IVs deserve the same fate.
These tanks are just stupidly strong, they all have TD level guns on an only slightly subpar medium tank chassis.
I have no idea why they still didn’t receive the same treatment as main medium tanks of other nations at this BR did, but it’s time to stop ignoring them just because low tier german mains are incompetent
let’s compare the M4A1 against the Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf. G:
Acceleration? M4
Reverse speed? Pz IV
Traverse speed? M4
Penetration? PzIV
Reload rate? M4
TNT equivalent? M4
Secondary armament? M4
Stabilization? M4
Gun depression? M4
Turret traverse? M4
UFP armor? M4
LFP armor? M4
Side armor? M4
Turret armor? M4
They’re fine at their current BR’s, the Pz IV J should come down to 3.3 as it’s a downgrade to the Pz IV G even.
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Isn’t the LFP of the M4A1 50 mm thick? The later Shermans get a reinforced LFP on the front where it is flat, but the M4A1 and M4 don’t if I recall correctly.
As stated before, practically it doesn’t justify the difference. The German 75mm whether the L43 or L48 is hands down the best medium tank gun at BOTH of those BR’s. It’s not even close. To be fair I think a lot of T-34’s are under BR too. It’s just that both of those trees, but especially the Germany one, are filled with low skill players.
This difference is meaningless. Or are you going to tell me that the L43 isn’t the best Medium Tank cannon even at 3.7?
The Pz IVs just have the higest penetrating guns. They trade pretty much everyting for that, being inferior in every other regard to other medium tanks.
And it’s definately not worth it because you trade the ability to penetrate tanks for the ability to target tanks while also being very vulnerable to enemy fire.
If the other tanks can kill each other using less powerfull guns then the higher penetration of the Pz IV is not an advantage but just it’s only outstanding feature.
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You really underestimate how powerfull german 75s are. Also, just a simple comparison like that is worthless since it doesn’t portray by how much a said thing is better.
- Acceleration? M4 is better only by a small margin
- Reverse speed on the other hand is much, much better on the Pz IV
- Penetration is also like 50% higher on the Panzer IV
- Shell drop is also much better
- TNT equivallent comparison is pointless as both of these tanks will one shot their targets most of the time and if anything a Panzer IV will do it more often, since it can basically shoot a center mass of any tank, including KV-1s unlike M4 which sometimes needs to go for weakspots that don’t guarantee a whole crew getting killed
- 12,7 and stab are the 2 actual upsides of the M4 and things that make it what it is. But considering the upsides Pz IV has it isn’t wrong for it to have something good about it as well
- Armor of the M4 may be decent for it’s BR, but it’s not anything outstanding, again not very big of an advantage. It only becomes actually noticable with M4A2 at 4.0, but still as soon as it ends up facing germany it’s as good as nothing. (yes, this is exactly because germany totally doesn’t have an undertiered medium tank that can pen anything anywhere)
I do agree that J doesn’t deserve to be on the same BR as H though. But not because it’s too high, but rather because H doesn’t belong to 3.7. Just like G has no business being at the same BR as F2
This point applies equally to the Pz IV F2, G, H, J, and Italian Pz. IV G. If any should be lower it should be the J as it has that terrible turret traverse.
The crux of the matter is Germany players play poorly so their vehicles get lower BR’s than they warrant.
Gaijin doesn’t balance on capability (generally). They do so on raw performance stats. I know why the F2 and G are at such a low BR, Germany players are bad. I mean the Tiger I H is the same BR as the M4A3E2. The VK 3002 is a lower BR than the Comet and all of the welded hull M4’s with 76mm guns. The list is long of Germany vehicles’ BR reflecting low skill in the majority of their players.
It is, but also rounded. It ranges between 56-134mm.
No I don’t.
I’ve got a 6.5 K/D in it, I’m well aware what the gun is capable of.
The problem is that the Pz IV’s are inferior at everything else, and the M4A1 still has better overall firepower than it.
The M4A1 reloads faster, has more post-pen damage, is stabilized, has 50. cals that shred a ton of light vehicles and still has enough penetration to deal with anything it meets.
Aside from that, it also has superior frontal armour, not just against a Pz IV but also against a wide variety of vehicles with lesser firepower than a Pz IV G. It’s got twice the turret traverse rate leading to a massively more responsive vehicle and that stabilization is just ludicrously unfair at that BR.
Somewhat recently played a session with the M4A1 and went on an average K/D of 19 - 1. The thing is simply far better suited to the War Thunder meta than any Pz IV is.
It is not, don’t lie.
≈2.5km/h difference is extremely minor.
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