Proposed ground RB battle rating changes

[TheDudesRug]

@scripterzofindia

BMP3 9.3>10.3 If begleitpanzer is going up…

I love BMP3, but this is a dumb and stupid comparison. Begleit is as good as it is because of the 40mm and its utility as a secondary SPAA with its HE-VT. BMP3 can SPAA minimally with its auto cannon, but no where near the scale of the Begleit. Yeah, the BMP3 has a much better missile - but also a hefty reload for it. And if you want to talk ATGM, you’ll have a better time with actual slingers like the AFT09.

@scripterzofindia

Bro the Gepard only has 40 rounds of apds that is 20 rounds for each gun… + za 35 exists

Ammo boxes exist now, but yes - I’d take Falcon over all those small ammo APDS machines. However, ltPsV Leopard is the best out of all of those machines all round. Its mobility and survivability combined with the cannon. It really is a joy to use, and it’s no surprise that guy was doing the quickest to nuke challenge in it. If only considering SPAA potential - give me PGZ09.

@AllNationEnjoyer

awful gun even for 6.7

Penetration-wise, still enjoyable to use for its all around usability - especially a good reload rate. I love using that tank. But I’m also someone who plays 6.7 USA just for the UFO tank goodness. Typically I bring the UFO as a first spawn and then the E5. In an uptier, the E5 is a no-go, so I’ll bring other tanks with better uptier potential. However, at its own BR the E5 is an absolute monster. It’s fine at 6.7, due to this. Any movement of the E5 up to 7 or beyond will simply kill the tank. If any move is going to be made for USA (and other trees with M26) around that BR, it’s to move the M26 down to 6.3 where it belongs. It has no business being the same BR as E5.

Spoiler

@UniqueScorpions

Funnily enough, I found out recently, the Maus cam Bounce rounds from a T-72A

@WolfgangTheSecon

Can does not mean will, much like your imagined point that “the Marder can bounce APFSDS”.

Exactly. And anyone who has played this game knows that you can bounce off anything if you try hard enough and the Gaijin gods want it to. However, one place that the T-72A is not going to bounce is the Maus’s turret cheek, and the Maus will go down. It’s how you dispatch of the Maus easily using vehicles like the Foch. Maus is enjoyable to use, but that’s not because it bounces most things. Like the 279, its true strength lies in its survivability. However, that turret cheek brings it undone easily and often - armour-wise and survivability-wise. But if the T-72 is out there thinking he is king-ding-a-ling and can just shoot with no care for where the shot lands…

[An_Pigeon]

Or hear me.out here.

Rather than recompress a bunch of stuff, more decompression.

None of these need to move realistically until we get decompression.

Centurion 10 at 8.0 as well as all the others on sweden and isreal are fine.
They sacrifice mobility majorly and are lacking good protection.

T54s are fine as well same as the leopard 1, amx 30s.wtc

[Lovecraft2]

I’ll be honest here lot of these suggestions are terrible. Most vehicles are already in a good position balance wise. The only thing that should be done is cold war tiers should be decompressed and cold war vehicles from ww2 ranks should be upped in BR to at least mitigate all the HEATFS slinging in ww2 tiers people complain about. Something like the M44 has no place in 4.0. It’s easily a 6.0 vehicle while the cold war howitzers could go to 7.0.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

@TheDudesRug

@scripterzofindia

BMP3 9.3>10.3 If begleitpanzer is going up…

I love BMP3, but this is a dumb and stupid comparison. Begleit is as good as it is because of the 40mm and its utility as a secondary SPAA with its HE-VT. BMP3 can SPAA minimally with its auto cannon, but no where near the scale of the Begleit. Yeah, the BMP3 has a much better missile - but also a hefty reload for it. And if you want to talk ATGM, you’ll have a better time with actual slingers like the AFT09.

@scripterzofindia

Bro the Gepard only has 40 rounds of apds that is 20 rounds for each gun… + za 35 exists

Ammo boxes exist now, but yes - I’d take Falcon over all those small ammo APDS machines. However, ltPsV Leopard is the best out of all of those machines all round. Its mobility and survivability combined with the cannon. It really is a joy to use, and it’s no surprise that guy was doing the quickest to nuke challenge in it. If only considering SPAA potential - give me PGZ09.

@AllNationEnjoyer

awful gun even for 6.7

Penetration-wise, still enjoyable to use for its all around usability - especially a good reload rate. I love using that tank. But I’m also someone who plays 6.7 USA just for the UFO tank goodness. Typically I bring the UFO as a first spawn and then the E5. In an uptier, the E5 is a no-go, so I’ll bring other tanks with better uptier potential. However, at its own BR the E5 is an absolute monster. It’s fine at 6.7, due to this. Any movement of the E5 up to 7 or beyond will simply kill the tank. If any move is going to be made for USA (and other trees with M26) around that BR, it’s to move the M26 down to 6.3 where it belongs. It has no business being the same BR as E5.

@UniqueScorpions

Funnily enough, I found out recently, the Maus cam Bounce rounds from a T-72A

@WolfgangTheSecon

Can does not mean will, much like your imagined point that “the Marder can bounce APFSDS”.

Exactly. And anyone who has played this game knows that you can bounce off anything if you try hard enough and the Gaijin gods want it to. However, one place that the T-72A is not going to bounce is the Maus’s turret cheek, and the Maus will go down. It’s how you dispatch of the Maus easily using vehicles like the Foch. Maus is enjoyable to use, but that’s not because it bounces most things. Like the 279, its true strength lies in its survivability.

For context the maus was reversing faster than my T-72a wanted to go, so I already knocked out his gunner and gun and thought a UFP shot would kill his driver, nope.

I agree with 90% of this.

But, the T26e5 should by all means be a 7.0, it has better armor than even the T29.
If the T26e1 stays put, then there will be a 6.7, and the jumbo with the long 76 will be 6.3

The m26 could become a 6.3, I don’t see anything too crazy about that.
But the m26T99 should stay at 6.7
Same with the m26e1? (The long barreled one).

[UniqueScorpions-live]

I cannot and will not ever agree with the T-54s being 7.7-8.0 they’re beyond bad even for an 7.3, but when a version of them can see 9.0??? It’s crazy.

[CorruptShadows9-live]

@UniqueScorpions

Fox 7.7 > 8.0

Only agreeable thing on this list from my biased and unchanging standpoint

@UniqueScorpions

7.3 quality armor at 6.7,

no, just no. If you, a 6.7 player, do not know how to kill the E5 then you need to just quit. The only thing the E5 has going for it that could warrant an idea of the Armor being 7.3-Worthy is the fact that the M26 is near identical with less armor. If we want to talk weakspots, the T26E5 has nearly the same weak spots as a Tiger II (P), minus a somewhat weaker front.

@UniqueScorpions

T-90A 11.0 > 10.7

@UniqueScorpions

a APS that doesn’t work vs vehicles you face

The reason said APS doesn’t work is cause Shtora is pretty much a “lookammy wed eyes!” and less of a reasonable APS especially seeing as you have to look the missile dead in the eyes and hope to god it’s a jammable missile. The reason it doesn’t work at its BR is because the missiles that it would jam are so far outdated, we’d be talking a 11.0-8.3 BR decrease for it to make sense. If you’re hoping for a mobile tank with a good reload you literally should not be playing USSR. Mind you, the T 80 U (Swedish Squadron Vehicle) with less armor, no APS, and it’s best round being the 3BM42 (Which is a surprisingly baller round despite its off-putting pen value), is at 11.3 and it sees countless downtiers to 10.7. Lowering the BR of the T-90A would literally do nothing except shove it somewhere it doesn’t belong.

@UniqueScorpions

Gepard 8.3 > 9.0

As much as I hate dying to Gepards, simply no. maybe 8.7 but tossing it at 9.0 puts it .7 BR lower than it’s better counterpart, the Gepard 1A2

@UniqueScorpions

Pzh2000 7.7 > 8.0

@UniqueScorpions

5.0 sec auto loader

Might I introduce you to the goofy Swede (Den Bandkanon)
[Yes I know you mentioned it]

@UniqueScorpions

Itpsv Leopard 8.7 > 9.3

@UniqueScorpions

Gepard

Loud Incorect Buzzer
The ItPsV Leopard (Which has a really long and fun name in Finnish) is simply just not a Gepard. Theres a reason that after Leopard in the ingame title it says “Marksman”. It’s the British Marksman turret on a Leopard 2A4 Hull. It’s a sacrilegious amalgam but that just does not mean it should be 9.3 without raising the Chieftain Marksman either.

All in all stop recommending furthering the compression of BRs

[An_Pigeon]

Yet the leopard 1 can too.

Oh the amx30 which has no access to apds, aphe, apbc either.

T54 is a victim of compression same as all the other 8.0s.

It has a better profile and armour than any 8.0

A caveat, every single 8.0 gets stomped by 9.0s its how it is.

The t54 is an 8.0 tank statistically speaking.

[WolfgangTheSecon]

For context the maus was reversing faster than my T-72a wanted to go, so I already knocked out his gunner and gun and thought a UFP shot would kill his driver, nope.

The Maus was reversing faster than the T-72 was advancing? Was your engine dying or something?

[CorruptShadows9-live]

Soviet engineering at its ultimate form: Completely outclassed by a prototype from the 40s

[WolfgangTheSecon]

“You see Ivan, if no put reverse gear into tank, tank not retreat, for fear of showing back to enemy”.

[Armen_Lozone]

damn this list is a mess, -1 to all

[UniqueScorpions-live]

My engine was yellow. Shouldn’t have been faster than me, but he was going down a slight hill

[UniqueScorpions-live]

Most of this is definitely biased, especially the fact you think the T80U for Sweden is less armored than the T-90A.

The turret cheeks may be better than the T80U, but that’s pretty much it.

Decompression needs to happen yes, but fixing the broken OP vehicles to make them better balanced is needed.

[CorruptShadows9-live]

@UniqueScorpions

The turret cheeks may be better than the T80U

Don’t want to be that guy but you just contradicted your own statement.

So, T-90A Vs a Vehicle at 10.7 it’ll commonly face, M1 Abrams. Round: M774 APFSDS, Prot Map

For Comp: T 80 U (I’m writing it like this as it’s how it’s stylized ingame, it looks horrid) Same Round, Slightly different angle

Looks decently similar, right? There’s an issue, have you spotted it?
T-80U is 11.3, M1 Abrams is 10.7. Here is the prot map against a tank of comparable BR, if we disregard the ability for downtiers

• M1A1 Abrams, Round: M829A1 APFSDS
  You’ve likely noticed, they’re literally Russian tanks. They have horrendous weak spots. T-80U has slightly more armor holes than a T-90 does, but when we look at the tier they’re at the T-80U is significantly underarmored.

Throughout our whole arguments we’ve each stood beside the decompression stature and while yes, we need to fix “OP” vehicles first, simply put decompression is the way to do it. Just adding one, maybe two more BRs to ground will fix a lot.
I must also mention a stunning lack of 2S38 on this list, alongside a stunning lack of US vehicles being lowered. I must also mention, T-54 going down to 7.7. While yes, I do agree, I must ask. Should a tank built three years following WWII see vehicles from 45? Well the Pansarbandvagn 301 is from the 60s and sees early war tanks, why is it not raised to it’s rightful BR alongside other tanks from that era? The answer to this question is balance. Is this balanced?

As opposed, M82 V T-54 (1949)

3BK-5 V T26E5, sure it’s HEATFS and early at that, but wouldn’t a well versed individual shoot the ammo racks? Now let’s go to the IS-3 at 7.0, in the case of the fullest of full down tiers, does this look fair? Does this look balanced?
(Tiger E vs IS-3 Best APHE, IS-3 vs Tiger E best APHE)

Yes, this is a biased look at the front plate of each vehicle, though it’s really where it matters most. Any side shot well placed can take out anything, but head to head you’re down to the weak points and I wonder who will come out on top here?
I also must ask, why not lower the Obj 292 to 10.3? It’s literally a naked T-80, all it’s got going for it is the cannon?
And sure, maybe it was the only one I put much thought into, but I’d much rather try to debate off more than one topic next time.

*Side bar with info is not there due to the system I used for the screenshots, all of these were 500m with the round of choice, you can fact check for yourself.

[CorruptShadows9-live]

I also don’t want to bring stats or profile cards into this, I really cannot speak as it ascertains to my K/Ds, but I find it very fitting your squadron is named “RussianBias” and your most played vehicle is the BMP-2M

[An_Pigeon]

@CorruptShadows9

T-54 going down to 7.7. While yes, I do agree,

I agree with almost everything bar this.

No tanks should be moving down

T54 has better armour than other 8.0s.
Middling mobility
And dire turret traverse.

However it has access to a fast array of ammunition, aphe, apcb, heatfs and apds and im sure im missing one.

As you correctly said we need decompression, not recompression

Maybe the t54 1947 can go to 7.7 due to lack of ammo, but foes thst mean the t44-100 should move down

[An_Pigeon]

The T90 is a good 11.0, its not worthy of going to 10.7

Has 3bm60
Has good armour
Has great optics
Has gen 2 thermals

Bad reverse and bad reload dont justify compressing tbe entire 9.7 to 10.7 bracket.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

Brother the cherry picks… the Is-3 driver port is super easy to hit as well as being able to out load the IS-3

[UniqueScorpions-live]

No T-44-100 can stay at 7.0

[An_Pigeon]

Its.not cherry picks.

The IS3 is a good heavy tank at its br,.it also has access (correct me if im.wrong) to B-412D?

The IS3 is designed for long range engagements, supporting tanks like the t54 , youre not supposed to be in close with it.

Lets compare it to something realistic, the m103.

Similar reload
Arguably better round depending who you ask, i prefer heat over aphe though.
Far better mobility
Far better armour.
And better side armour funnily enough