Moved where?
F-16A (13.0) would be too good at 12.7 with 6x AIM-9M
Why?
It very much still would, R-73+HMD is an incredible combination that 11.7 shouldn’t face. The MiG-29G of course can’t work magic like the Su-27 but it still is incredibly dangerous in a dogfight. Just remove R-27E and add R-73 and make 13.0, with most 13.0s going up to 13.3 (where they absolutely can handle themselves just stay low and don’t tunnel vision) This works even better with decompression to 14.7 or 15.0.
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Yes. The French F-16A is the perfect example of the sad state of BR compression around 12.7-13.0
It would be too good for 12.7, but it’s a bad 13.0
F-16A ADF should be 4/6xAIM-9M & 2AIM-7F making it equal to MiG-29 (9-13) with 4xR-73 & 2xR-27R/T
6x R73 is more powerful than including R27R/T and this vehicle would already be on the edge of balance with the 4x r73/2x r27
Then you go on to say this after you make me explain the former? What was the point?
21bison at 12.3:
But then it’s worse than the Mig-29G which has both the R-27Es and R-73s. I do agree that it would probably be too good for 12.7 with R-73s and R-27Rs.
“R-73+HMD is an incredible combination that 11.7 shouldn’t face.”
Also F-4J has HMS at 12.0
With the current state of 13.0, that would put the ADF on a worse position often. It also would just be a worse F-15A
12.3 minimum. The R-60Ms aren’t the greatest, but at 12.3 the R-27ERs are still good but not facing MiG-21s, F-5Es, Tornado IDSs, etc. It’s like the MiG-23, you rely on two missiles, but yet a skilled player will make use of all they have on hand. Also, the 9-12 has the same issue, which I assume you were including in this post
Alternatively, raise the MiG-29A to 13.0 and give us another BR bracket (15.0)
MIG29 is never getting downtiered to 12.3 with any loadout
If it was in the american TT it would be 12.3, only US gets undertiered planes.
The r73s were removed after americans cried a storm on the forums in the first place. That was back during 100m multipath ir meta so now its just a 2 missile bus at 12.7 with significantly better options 0.3 br higher.
Dogfights are incredibly rare at higher tiers and usually end up happening because of poor posistioning not because you want them to.
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And they get 6 fox 2 with pd radar on top of hmd and think 11.7 mig23 is undertiered with 2 fox 2 and mti radar.
I’d disagree on this. While R-73s are extremely agile, they’re also one of the shortest-ranged missiles in the game, certainly at the rank. Even with the poor radar of the 29 and only R-27, it’s a situation akin to the F-16A where you are outranged by every opponent which limits your effectiveness. So let the dogfighters go all-in on dogfighting.
First, that’s itself quite strong for only 12.3. seconds, it’s only got max 2 R-73s and not 6 (or 4 I guess)
That’s a MiG-21. The MiG-29 has a combination of HMD, R-73, and excellent AoA especially with the cobra button, though of course not to the extent of a Sukhoi. In a close-range dogfight, it can lock with HMD, pull hard lead, and launch with the extremely agility of the R-73 ensuring a splash. The Bison lacks a key piece of this puzzle, significantly limiting its ability to utilize the other two, not to mention just overall performance.
It’s even more extreme with the F-4J someone else mentioned- HMD but neither AoA nor high-agility missiles…
Then there’s just the aspect that I will always prefer a vehicle be too high than too low. If it’s too high it suffers. If it’s too low everything else suffers. If all vehicles are too high, that’s overdecompression and makes the game stale mirror matches- at the extreme all vehicles have their own BR and never face anything else. If all vehicles are too low, thats overcompression and the game is completely unplayable for anything but the singular best vehicle- at the extreme there is one single BR for every vehicle.
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They have more delta-V than any AIM-9 and only really lose range when they have to use TVC to a high extent, which is to be expected… it’s not that much shorter range than the sidewinder in general application, if at all.
You cannot try to tell me that 6x r73 is worse than 4x/2x and then go on to say having r73 would be too good for 12.7. Figure out your logic cause its not logic’ing.
Not really. Lots of competition there.
Something the 21bison also has…
something the mig21 also does not struggle with
Oh so like the MiG21bison
It doesn’t. It’s just not as good at it because it’s obviously a MiG-21 and not a 29. They still do the same thing though, and the 21 is still very good at doing it.
This doesn’t make any sense btw
Let me break it down for you then.
R-73s are very good missiles. In a vacuum, better than an R-27R. But going from 4 to 6 of them isn’t that huge of a deal. Especially as it comes at the expense of the only mid-long range armament. So, 4 R-73+2R-27 is balanced compared to 6 R-73, and it’s nonsensical to eliminate one just because.
Either way, too strong for 12.7. 4x R-73 on a highly agile platform with HMD is very nearly as powerful as 6x on the same platform, but without the counter of outranging with SARH.
Are you really trying to say the MiG-21 and MiG-29 can pull the same AoA? Really?
No, not like the Bison. The Bison doesn’t even come close to touching the Fulcrum. You might as well compare the 29 to the F-5 or hell the F-4E. The Bison doesn’t even get a cobra!
So why do you want only a 0.3 BR difference between the two…
Imagine top BR of 100.0. How much variety of vehicles would you face in any one vehicle. It’s possible to have too much of a good thing, decompression.
Can you read? If you could, you would see I never said this.
Nobody said it does, what I said is the 21bison can do the same trick of pulling high AoA then using HMD+R73 to get OBS shots. It DOES pull high AoA, just not quite as high as 29.
I can’t stop how the game is compressed.
Nobody is asking for 100.0. They’re asking for 15.0, 16.0, etc, so no.
Your argument is the same as how h20 is toxic in large quantities…
What’s that? Never heard of h20.
You’re clearly either not willing or able to participate in a discussion. I’ve explained my bit, you’ve failed to defend yours, guess we gotta agree too disagree.
This is the only solution, but they should also remove the R-27ERs it never used. Though 4x R-73 might warrant it actually being 13.0
For it to be 12.0 it would have to be limited to 2x R-60s. Not even R-60Ms and no BVRs at all.
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