Say what you say, End of argument, regardless of wether you disagree or not. topic = fv4005.
I like how this guy says that a shell with these statistics shouldn’t be able to completely obliterate a sherman just because you hit the mg port if that’s the case why dont we all just ditch useless shit like RHA and ERA and put machine guns instead all over the tanks?
2 Likes
a small bomb, you know, a 72kg projectile slamming into you at 800m/s or so should do a bit of damage on its own, and if that doesnt do it, then explosive equivalent to 21 kg of TNT should ruin someones day
yet according to some people thats unreasonable
2 Likes
The FV4005 is a giant waste of time. The RL tank was explicitly designed to kill the IS-3 frontally and fired a 144cm tall, 72kg HESH shell at 716m/s. In trials the gun could penetrate 60-degree sloped plate, 6 inches (152 mm) thick, at up to 2,000 yards (1,830 meters). It blew the turret of a Centurion clean off, and split the mantlet of the Conqueror in half. Tests showed also that even on a non-penetrating hit, just the impact of such a large high velocity shell would damage the target and stun or kill the crew.
However, in my experience in game, in Warthunder you cannot penetrate an IS-2 frontally…or a Panther in the side…or a Puma at all, since my 183mm shell *damaged the tires" without killing it. It ran off around a building and then blew me away with its 50mm gun before I could reload.
3 Likes
HESH doesnt overpressure ingame, so its another reason why its so shit.
but HEAT that has a fraction of the explosive will, its just not fair
HESH does in fact overpressure.
However HESH has severly reduced penetration range of the explosion as the penetration range seems to be determined by the shell weight or weight/filler ratio.
This can also be seen with certain HE rounds that can only really penetrate plate with direct hits, since the penetration drop-off is so high that they won’t be able to penetrate roof armor for example with a hit to the turret.
There’s also something weird going on with HESH, where they explosive action stops working when the round hits a plate with enough armor.
Basically it will either function as HE or as HESH but not both.
Of course there is some logic to that. When HESH impacts a plate, the explosive gets squashed against the plate and then it detonates while a HE round will fuze on impact with the shells body being directly above any adjecant plate.
A shockwave needs to close to an armor plate to have an affect while shell fragments can carry much more energy into the plate.
Spoiler
1 Like
FV4005 hitting left side of the hull, it RARELY overpressures on the drivers side. HESH is more consistent now but they made it bad again, a month ago it would upper plate the T80BVM, it now doesn’t do anything
The main problem is that no matter how squashed the round is, its a small childs amount of explosive going off, irl it would have crumpled the turret ring of any turret it hit. In game the best we get is ether a non pen or a breach knock out, which isnt great when your reload is this long.
3 Likes
Even the best armour cant survive a really REALLY strong whack from a big bomb
1 Like
I mean, the round is travelling at around 800m/s, and in Gaijin’s own words, “is like a small aerial bomb” (28.9kg HE equivalent)
You’d think that that might do the trick: (thank you commenter on Reddit for this one)
IRL, it certainly would’ve done: https://youtu.be/_5cMsW5ZovY?t=3382
(I’m afraid you’ll need to skip forward, as the timestamp is a bit off, 59:46)
It just feels a bit… naff, in game.
1 Like
it doesnt even take out crew members. it just phases through them
go to type93 protection analysis and fire at it and see for yourself
You would think a small aerial bomb being detonated against the side of a tank (even the most modern tanks today) would completely decimate it, but nope apparently it does nothing, even to the side of a T44
1 Like
The HESH is sad, it is by far the most poorly treated bullet in the game, with minimal damage and completely random.
4 Likes
I suspect, though I can’t claim to be an expert on shell behaviour, I suspect the explosive would go off after penetration of armour, in the way APHE behaves, and of course, if a round fails to penetrate the armour, it essentially behaves like a round that penetrates anyway, because it throws out spall (only difference being is the actual round doesn’t enter the fighting compartments, rather it detonates on the plate impacted.
Didnt realise this until recently but gaijin really thinks a shell under half the weight of the FV4005s shell only has 1kg less of TNT. going off of the 165mm it ought to have in excess of 30kg TNT 
The muzzle velocity is vastly different. So the shells are probably built differently.
The 183mm is probably much sturdier to handle the high pressure and acceleration. while the 165mm is probably built like a Mineshell.
For demolition purposes it makes perfect sense to fire a shell with the highest ammount of explosive possible.
But something doesn’t add up. The German 150mm I.Gr. 38 is practically a Mineshell but weighs 38kg with 8.6kg filler.
So the 165mm weighing a mere 30kg seems unlikely.
No Mineshell for aircraft guns has 50% of it’s weighs explosives, and those have paper thin shell casings.
Here’s the 120mm HESH for the Chieftain:
According to the game it has 17kg with 4kg explosive, which seems plausible.
So how would a 165mm shell only weigh twice but carry four times the filler?
If we somehow cram 16kg explosives into the 120mm shell it would weigh 29kg, except there is no space and more space means more weight.
ChatGPT says the shell weighs 64kg. But of course we can’t be sure about that.
Here it says 64lb. My guess that 64kg is correct but somehow it was turned into pound, kinda like the how the Churchills 29mm Spigot Mortor got turned into 290mm.
2 Likes
However according to this:
https://www.bulletpicker.com/pdf/TM-43-0001-28-1994.pdf#page=186
It’s in fact correct.
We have a 30,64kg shell with 15.86kg of explosives.
Just to make sure I made this little painting:
Spoiler
So forget my rambling and gas lighting ChatGPT into thinking it was twice the weight.
Funnily enough, that’s data for the US M123 that matches the British L33A1 in-game, while the in-game M123 has different values.
I imagine that the 183mm HESH shell has much thicker shell walls, thus resulting in a much heavier shell.
i doubt the shellcasing would be that much heavier, it still needs to squash out, even with significantly thicker walls only a tiny amount more explosives doesn’t add up with the sheer magnitude of the shell, not to mention the difference in destructive capabilities from testings
But you can see the difference with the Chieftain 120mm HESH.
It’s pretty thin shell casing but it’s not a dawn construction like the 165mm HESH, which would have a very thin shell casing like a Mineshell.
From the weight of the 120mm HESH you can easily upscale the round and see that the weight would match.
Just doing some simple volumetric upscaling from 120mm to 183mm results in a shell that would weigh 60kg.
So it’s completely plausible that the 183mm shell has a weight of 72kg with around 17kg of explosives.
HESH still sucks btw.
Gaijin i have given you photos and documents in reports relating to HESH before I know you have the info to make HESH work correctly
please actually do this
1 Like