CAS is now burried to the ground, at least those that was around 10.7, pushing them to 11.3 or 11.7 is just free lunch for the Pansir, because we all know that 10.7 is in constant uptier.
6 Likes
RN Ghibli (3.7 → 3.3).
Naval battles (both realistic and arcade).
Armament is insufficient: two 100 mm cannons with a slow reloading, old rangefinders, only 4 slow 450 mm torpedoes. As a frigate it has destroyer’s spawn, but it’s outmatched by any of them including reserves + unlike on destroyers its secondary armament can’t automatically attack back. It has poor survivability. There is absolutely not any strong point to keep it at 3.7 BR.
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Have you ever fought against a gripen in a MiG-29G and won?
What is your argument here.
In your make-belief scenario the euro has 4 missiles with launch limits
F-16 has 6 without launch limits
idk about you, but I’m confident the F-16 has a massive advantage there
whether you’re starting at 30km or 10
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True, though it’s at an undeniably strange spot in its BR with the Preproduction KT being 6.3 as well, while significantly better tanks like the T26E5 and T26E1-1 are at 6.7
Decompression is really needed.
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The exact same way its fair that the f16a has to deal with flankers at its BR and the f16XL where flankers have double the missiles and HMD, and in some cases more countermeasures
I will separate these and add to this over the next few days. I understand Gaijin wants vehicles individually. Think of this as a quick reference.
British RB Ground BR’s:
- A1E1 Independent: 1.3 down to 1.0. Terrible armour for a heavy tank, worse than many nations light tanks even at 1.0. Terrible mobility. Massive target. 3-Pdr gun isn’t a redeeming factor either, it’s not the worst gun in the game, but due to all the other factors combined it’s made much worse. Please also fix the Soviet level gun depression.
- SARC IVa: 1.3 down to 1.0. It’s fast, and that’s kinda it. If you compare it to the Daimler it shares a BR with, it loses in almost every respect. Worse armour, no shoulder stabiliser, gun is incredibly bouncy and kicks like a mule after firing, worse gun elevation and depression angles, and it’s open-topped.
- Valentine I: 2.7 down to 2.3. I don’t see why this went up. It’s clearly worse than the Matilda in nearly every way. I would drop this back down to 2.3 and reclassify it as a Heavy Tank.
- Valentine XI: No change in BR. I would also reclassify this as a Heavy Tank.
- Valentine IX: No change in BR. Just reclassify it as a Heavy Tank and finally implement my 6-Pdr bug report. It should have the 6-Pdr Mk V.
- Crusader AA Mk I: No change in BR. Just fix the M81A1 ammo, it should be APBC.
- Churchill Mk I: 3.3 down to 3.0. The 2-Pdr is horrendous at this point, mainly due to the lack of mobility to flank. Even taking it in downtiers it struggles to penetrate Pz. IV F2’s with add-on track armour, Pz. III M’s, M4A3 105’s, etc. This would be a side-grade to the 3" Gun Carrier, the Gun Carrier has very similar armour but has a better gun in a casemate.
- AEC AA: 3.7 down to 3.3. The only good thing about this vehicle is that it’s enclosed, I don’t understand why you keep overvaluing this. The Oerlikon’s aren’t great guns. You’re just making the low tier British SPAA gap worse.
- Cromwell V & Cromwell V (RP-3): No change. Big disagree here. This is in no way on the same level as the M4A2. No stabiliser, no .50 cal, worse armour, and no APCR. The only thing the Cromwell V beats the M4A2 at is speed. You just moved it to 3.7, I suggest waiting for the winrate and KD to stabilise a bit more and see if it’s still overperforming by the next BR change round.
- Crusader AA Mk II: 4.0 down to 3.7. I don’t understand why this vehicle even went up. Just compare it to the Wirbelwind, far less rate-of-fire, less penetration, and half the guns. The only advantage the Crusader AA Mk. II has is an enclosed turret and more mobility. The 2 were very asymmetrically balanced.
- Churchill Mk III: 4.0 down to 3.7. Less mobility than the Churchill Mk. I, same hull armour, and worse turret armour (only 3.5 inches compared to 4 inches). The gun is better, but that’s it. It also has the wrong 6-Pdr, it should have the 6-Pdr Mk III which would further justify a BR drop.
- A33 “Excelsior”: 4.3 to 4.7. The mantlet needs to be fixed. It should be the same 3.5" as the Crusader, Cromwell, and Churchill. That will eliminate a weakspot and justify the increase.
- Churchill NA75: 4.3 down to 4.0. It’s more of a side-grade over the Churchill Mk. III, not a direct upgrade. You lose the good rate-of-fire, lose the shoulder stabiliser, and lose a decent amount of penetration for a better damaging shell. That’s the only difference, the shell is good but if the Churchill Mk. III goes down then the NA75 should as well. You still haven’t fixed the secondary MG either.
- Churchill VII & Crocodile: 4.7 up to 5.0. It’s sad to say, but I agree with this, M61 was a massive jump in performance. Even though the penetration is only like 2mm better APHE means you can now cupola snipe and even previously “bad shots” will kill the enemy. The biggest issue is the Churchill VII no longer having a line up, now players will be forced to drag up their 4.7 line up or drag the Churchill to 5.3.
- Comet I & Comet I “Iron Duke”: 5.3 down to 5.0. It’s really a shadow of its former self. The A30 Challenger is a better vehicle in almost everyway. Just compare the Comet to the VK 3002 (M). This would also give the Churchill VII a line up. If the VK 3002 (M) goes up to 5.3 then this isn’t required.
- AC IV: 5.3 down to 5.0. It’s just a slightly better Firefly. Again, just compare it to the VK 3002 (M). Like the Comet, this would also give the Churchill VII a line up. If the VK 3002 (M) goes up to 5.3 then this isn’t required.
- Skink: 5.3 down to 4.7. Just like the Crusader AA Mk. II really don’t understand why it keeps going up. Again, just compare it to the Wirbelwind, you still have less firepower and penetration but now have the double the guns of the Crusader AA Mk. II, and the same amount of guns as the Whirbelwind. Is that really worth a BR increase of 1.3 currently (4.0 to 5.3)?
- Tortoise: 6.7 down to 6.3. Just compare it to the T28, very similar vehicles except the Tortoise is covered in weakspots, lacks APHE, and just as slow. Fix the armour, add the missing APDS, and the other minor reports missing engine wall and armoured bins. If all of these are done it won’t need to go down.
- Centurion Mk 3: 7.7 down to 7.3. It’s overshadowed by the Centurion 5/1, “Action X”, Caernarvon, and Conqueror. There’s no reason to take it over these vehicles. Just compare it to the FV4202 and it’s actually quite similar.
- Falcon: 8.3 down to 7.7. It’s terrible compared to the Chieftain Marksman. Worse firepower, worse radar, worse armour, and it’s not even more mobile. The only thing it has over the Marksman is its smaller size. After removing the APDS it’s dropped massively in win rate and KD. Why are you moving it up to 8.7 with the Marksman and the ZA-35? Two SPAA’s that make it completely redundant.
- Vijayanta: 8.3 down to 8.0. This thing really is just a worse Vickers MBT Mk 1. Without the LRF there’s no reason for a slower vehicle with a worse reload to be 0.3 higher than the TT counterpart even with the HEATFS.
USA RB Ground BR’s:
- M4A3 (105): 3.0 up to 3.3. This thing is a low tier menace. Along with the StuH 42 G and SU-122. This isn’t just about balance, this change is also about new player retention. As a low tier enjoyer I can tell you squads love this tank and if new players are constantly being crushed by seal clubbers, then they will stop playing the game. There’s plenty of things you can do here too, as there’s several potential ammo types missing that can justify the BR increase.
- T18E2: 3.3 up to 3.7. Just the increase to 3.3 was not enough. This thing is equivalent to the Ram II or Cromwell I.
German RB Ground BR’s:
- Sd.Kfz.234/3: 2.0 up to 2.3. If the StuG IIIA is 2.3 then this machine absolutely needs to be 2.3, it has the exact same gun and fantastic mobility. It had a 56.1% winrate last month and a KD of 2.01.
- StuH 42 G: 3.0 up to 3.3. This thing is a low tier menace. Along with the M4A3 105 and SU-122. This isn’t just about balance, this change is also about new player retention. If new players are constantly getting wrecked by overpowered tanks they’re going to drop the game. You could also give it the missing ammo, see spoiler below.
Spoiler
- Sd.Kfz.234/2: 3.7 up to 4.0, and make it Rank III. This vehicle is effectively the German Chaffee equivalent, it’s incredibly uptier resistant and I’ve seen many players take/recommend taking it up to 6.3.
- VK 3002 (M): 5.0 up to 5.3. This vehicle is basically a side-grade to the Panther D. It trades a small amount of armour for speed. If the VK goes up then you can ignore my earlier Comet I and AC IV posts.
- Turm III: 8.7 up to 9.0. Surely this is a mistake that this was missed during decompression.
Sweden RB Ground BR’s:
- Sherman III/IV: No change, just fix the historical bug reports. This is a very strong premium, instead of knocking it up to 4.0 you can try fixing it first. This is not a Sherman IV (M4A3) hull but a Sherman IB (M4 105) which has the same 400hp engine and transmission of the M4 & M4A1. The hull is also modelled incorrectly, as the armour has been made to represent a single continuous piece. The MG weakspot is still there, it has just had a bit of metal welded over it.
- Comet I: 5.3 down to 5.0. If the British one goes down, so should the Swedish/Finnish one. Again, if the VK goes up this is not required.
Italian RB Ground BR’s:
- M15/42: 2.7 down to 2.3. This is a very sad medium tank, and barely an improvement over the M14/41.
- Sherman I Composito: 3.7 up to 4.0. This is effectively a cast hull M4A2. Last month it had a 61.6% winrate and a KD of 2.43, people complain about the Sherman III/IV but this is the real seal clubbing Sherman premium.
French RB Ground BR’s:
- M4A3 (105): 3.0 up to 3.3. This thing is a low tier menace. The stats might not show it, but it’s an instance of submarining.
- AMX-13-M24: No change, just make it Rank III. Seems like this was missed in the last BR thread.
6 Likes
You said: “euro just explodes to rafale”
So what, u can use maneuver to dodge an aim9x or rbs98 or fb10?
Because it does
Literally ask any good wt player lmfao
Rafale fiddles everything in a joust
Do you want to try it?
Type 10 going to 13.3 especially with the massive gun depression nerf that just got accepted is funny. It’s somehow a higher BR than the M1A2T. Reload does not make this tank good when everything else about it is the worst in class, from mobility to armour to gun handling which is now reinforced by terrible depression angles.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/2JRlmBskK3jy
5 Likes
2S38, T-80UD Still 10.7
9.7 (9.3 before) will face this thing again LOL
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I noticed ghibli is going up to 11.7. Main threat of war thunder is neutralized, everyone may sleep calmly now.
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Pretty sure you can only do one vehicle per post
You didn’t read the first sentence. ;)
apart from the 13.7 f16s lol, hms and aim 120s gonna be fun next this br change.
(It feels wrong not putting this here…)
Mode: GRB
Vehicle: Bosvark
Change: 5.3 → 5.0/4.7
Condition: The Skink goes down in BR.
Reason: Many people act like it better than the Skink when it’s equal. It trades everything(ammo, armour, mobility, etc.) for a good gun. As the weak armour and a blind spot the size of the moon is easy to take advantage of, compared to the Skinks’ armour and 360-degree aim.
I did mention a condition, as if you ask me, it never should be higher than the Skink, as it’s not a better AA if you factor in everything and not just its gun. But I also can’t see it having a lower BR as it’s not worse than the Skink
2 Likes
Why would the bosvark go down? It’s one of the strongest WW2 SPAAs in the game.
1 Like
JaPz.K A2
GRB
8.7 → 9.0
The SK-105A2 is moving up, i think this was forgotten.
8 Likes
Yeah, okay - there’s a few ‘wait, hold up a minute’ here changes for aircraft in Arcade, other than the ‘should have gone up forever ago’ Su-30 premiums.
MiG-29N - look, straight up as an owner of both this and one of the premium Su-30’s, I’ve been saying it needs to go up, but it is NOT 13.7 good, it doesn’t even come close to an Su-30 where I can carry the 6 same ARH missiles, while carrying an extra 4x R-73E’s and a couple TV guided bombs. 13.3 is where this thing belongs.
Kfir C.10 - This one is an absolute ‘the heck are you thinking!?’ jump. No way is this thing a 13.7 plane with 4x Derby’s against Su-30’s and the rest, even 13.3 would be sketcy - especially with how often it’s dealing with planes 8+ at that point, and in cases better missiles. The JA37 changes to 13.3 were already not great for the same reasons.
F-4’s (Germany and Israel) and F-16XL - again, moving planes with 4x ARH missiles of this type is sketcy at best to 13.3.
F-14A IRIAF - yeah, no, you haven’t touched it’s Fakour-90’s which are it’s problem to knock that thing down to 12.7 from 13.0, more so if your knocking all the rest up to 13.3 or higher.
MiG-25PD - can’t believe I’m actually arguing to not nerf a Russian plane actually in the Russian line, but there is no way that thing is 11.3 like an F-4E that eats it for breakfast with it’s better SARH missiles and the fact it has a gun. The only issue with the MiG-25PD at 11.0, is all the seriously over BR’ed F-104’s that need to drop a stage or two, usually combined with the fact people are using your matchmaking algorithm to put it in lineups that run it as a 10.7 instead. And if that’s the problem - then you need to adjust the MM to not allow people to take aircraft down a stage than upping it, and possibly some of these other aircrafts, BR’s cause it’d solve a lot of problems.
B7A2’s- there is no way these things need yet another increase to 4.3 after you just moved them to 4.0 after an eternity at 3.7. I’ve seen my share recently, they haven’t become some kind of monster at the BR.
Going back to the 13.0’s your looking to bump up - let’s be real here for a second. Half the existing 12.7 aircraft have SARH+IOG+DL missiles - a middle ground between the ARH and SARH. 12.3’s are gonna have it rough, some more than others - but their also likely the lowest BR in the match at that point, and certain ones need to drop down like the F-16A with it’s whole 6x 9L’s when a lot of 11.7’s are smashing them in the face with AIM-7F’s or other SARH missiles. The other half were early adds, or the bizzaro nonsense with things like the F-15 after ARH was finally added (for real though you seriously need to take the F-2A premium for Japan out of 13.0) when it dropped to 12.7, where most of them only have that BR because of IRCCM IR missiles. In a bracket at best dominated by SARH, at worst by ARH. These things need to move down to 12.3, and maybe something like an F/A-18A needs to drop to 12.0 with it’s 4x AIM-7M’s at it’s 9L’s if you don’t want it at the same as the F-15A packing 4x 9M’s and 4x 7M’s. Aside from a needing in general a bit more consistency in ‘who gets access to IR missiles and all-aspect ones when’, 12.0-12.3 is the last of the basic SARH missiles, 12.7 is the ones that bridge the gap between SARH and ARH missiles, and 13.0 is the start of planes that basically replaced the handful of SARH missiles they carried with the early advanced ARH missiles like the F-4’s, 13.3 is where you get the ones that could carry more of them, and then 13.7+ is ‘carried even more of them and/or even more advanced versions of them’. Other than if there’s some other aspect that seriously changes it to where it needs to go up or down a bit. Like - it only carries AIM-120A’s, but it carries 20 of them.
I get y’all have whatever your weighting is for BR, that I wish you’d explain cause there are times it seems more like you threw darts at a dartboard - but in Arcade, especially cause we have the in-air reload, once you get to missiles, their the main thing that should be weighted based on type and performance, with anything else almost being tertiary not even secondary. I’m one of the few Air Arcade players once you get to 9.0, let alone 11.3+, who actually flies in to use guns intentionally, once people get IR missiles - they start avoiding gun fights, you get to SARH outside weird ones like the AIM-9C or ones with reliability issues like the 7C, a lot of players ditch the IR missiles to start reload on the SARH missiles faster, and get back out of the fight. Once you get to ARH forget it, most of them are launching and running away as they reload practically from spawn, or sometimes literally on some of the smaller maps with IR or SARH being pretty much irrelevant. That’s just how the game ends up being played and working, and you might as well start balancing some of this to that fact. Doesn’t matter that the F-16A has 6x 9L’s and can turn on a dime (granted it bleeds energy super fast) against an F-4J or S that has 6x AIM-7F’s, those F-4’s down the F-16A before it ever gets close enough to use the 9L’s or exploit it’s agility.
1 Like
Stingray (US)
9.3 → 9.7
Japanese (Thai) Stingray is moving up, i assume this was forgotten
4 Likes