Right, but not in situations where for example Leopards 123 or Christians have already taken key positions and broken the timing. In those cases, the match turns into a shooting range and ends within minutes.
yes, and rafale should be 15.0
I’m talking about global decompression that affects entire tiers.
The Rafale is already going to 14.7, but the Gripen E is just unfair when it’s not at top tier.
right but moving the T-80UD up is still decompression. and needs to happen.
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well you see. Less engine power and one less amraam than the ef surely makes it fair for it to fight 13.0 rn :)
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Then let’s just put it at 1.0 so it’s definitely not facing too good enemies.
So the Chinese T-80UD/BE at 10.7 gets second-generation thermals and the same armor, the British Bhishma at 10.7 gets second-generation thermals and T-90 armor - but the T-80UD is expected to stay at 10.7 without proper reverse speed or thermal sights. Makes sense, right?
It still doesn’t have a reverse or gun depression
Most ways that matter include reverse gear of which the T-72/T-90 have none and gun depression that they also lack
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FV214 Conqueror
BR (GRB)
7.7 → 7.3
Changes:
Remove its ahistorical Stabiliser (Report)
Without its stabiliser it will be a straight up downgrade to the M103, and is already inferior to its preceding Caernarvon
Stuff M103 has better (some significantly better)
47% higher horizontal speed (16.3d/s vs 24d/s)
Solid shot, a HEAT shell (better ammo selection)
Same reload,
More mobility (a lot lighter (over 10 ton with Conq’s add on armour) with similar engine power)
a .50 cal which helps with the higher number of lighter vehicles at the BR
I’d argue better sights too
Better breech armour
Multiple smaller things that if i listed i would just be being petty
All for the tradeoff for better HEAT protection on the turret, which won’t save you against most HEAT anyway, and the Hull is just as weak to it, before considering the breech, and a Marginal increase in speed (which is inconsequential)
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No, what doesn’t make sense is why an MBT-70 is seeing a T-80UD, Chieftain, if they insist on moving it up, ZTZ-96, or an AMX-32 105. also go to bloody Specsavers if you can’t see without a thermal sight, also considering I said moving it up to 10.7. furthermore the Bishma moving up is another topic. I don’t care if the T-80UD is useless for a couple of updates, but 9.3 cannot suffer like this any longer.
Are you insane
i play a lot of low tier britain, bad reverse speed is not a real problem
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what part of what he said was insane?
It shouldnt have a stabiliser and is overall worse than the M103.
7.0-7.3 would be fine for it as its APDS sucks
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without the stabiliser it would be fine at 7.3
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The Conqueror won’t go down and likely stay at 7.7 without the stab if you know anything about Gaijin
Conq is already not too fantastic at 7.7 (almost purely on account on APDS being unreasonably poor)
if the stab is removed (which helps massively due to its mediocre traverse speeds and suspension that isn’t great)
for reasons i already Clarified in the folded area
it would be a downgrade over the M103, which itself is not world beating
The stab is the One major thing the Conqueror has over the M103, without which it has no real edges over it, and only really downsides over it
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It’s one of the strongest 7.7s
The Conqueror has a lot better protection against HEAT and APDS than the M103
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Youve ran into issue currently affecting ANY tank within 35m SPAA BR spread. T-80UD isnt special.
Once again, that is not issue unique to the T-80UD.
Which is, once again, protected by good armor, that drastically lowers the chance of penetrating shot occuring in the first place.
yes, its called tradeoffs.
Leopard 2A4 does not have competetive reload time unless Id shill 2100 GE for it.
200 games in PzBtl 123, nowhere near close to ACe crew.
which does not come into play on urban maps.
yes, because Im not afraid to admit that both Leopard 2A4 and M1 Abrams do have advantages over T-80UD, which become most prominent on open maps.
its not merely having trouble, TtK is heavily skewed in favor of T-80UD.
Complete lie on your part. Abrams/2A4 have extremely small window of opportunity to deal with T-80UD that ponces on them on urban maps., made all the more worse by the usual gaijin shenanigans when it comes to post-pen effects.
That much is true, but unless Abrams/2A4 nail that one shot in the small window of opportunity with T-80UD coming into their view, they die. They to do leave little room for mistakes in this interaction.
Indeed. Not from its hull armor which can be lolpenned by even 3BM22, a 9.3 shell.
That is another lie on your part as amount of spall is reliant of residual penetration
you imply T-80UD at 10.7 would be overtiered whereas in reality it would match the other two premium “Big 3” MBTs.
doesnt seem to be the case so far.
its much better than either Abrams/2A4 has to offer.
That is however player side issue, not tank one. You can lack both situational awarness and proper positioning in Leopard 2A4.
Most maps also feature areas with “urban areas” where thermals arent as important.
My expert crew Abrams has 37.6°/s of horizontal turret rotation, my expert crew T-80UD has 22.6°/s of horiozntal turret rotation.
Now I dont know about you, but roughly three times faster would mean 22.6 x 3 = 67.8°/s, not 37.6/s.
it also has only 372mm@10@0° of pen, which massively effects how reliably it can go through armor.
On that I absolutely agree.
Nonetheless you forgot few critical weaknesses of Abrams/2A4 as well, namely
- these two MBT families being only two MBT families in the game that currently have turret baskets, which massively negatively affects their post-pen survivability, because gaijin decided that undamaged metalic part of the basket without proper wiring is absolutey crucial to turrets ability to rotate
- they both have the world famous NATO hump which affets their gun depression in rear aspect, something T-80UD does not struggle with
- the unrealistic Leopard 2 gun safety override that prevents it from depressing its gun over the back, as it was recently discovered going by Ukraine war footage.
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true. even though without it the conq is far from 7.7 worthy