It was never enough. Like for example when top tier was 9.0, we needed 10.0, but still a good decision.
please can we lower the otomatic, it makes no sense that it is still at such a high rate given that anti-aircraft missiles predominate, it seems like we are playing with a very nice door stopper.
Let’s not talk about Ariete because I’ll hit myself on the head first
1 Like
Most of them I dont play so I dont know are they good or not, but just as a few thoughts:
Yak-141: 12.0>12.3, with the access to four R-73s(Located below R-27ET/ER)
Out of the four Russian rank 8, the Yak-141 has the least apperance. I havent seen one in quite a while, perhaps like its NATO callsign, it went to do some freestyles in the river.
Aaaaaanyways, without equally good missiles, the Yak-141 is kinda struggling due to its rather unfavorable FM, the ability to produce energy but not the ability to maintain said energy, and low top speed. It has I believe the best soviet radar but given it has only a 2+2 loadout while being worse than the SMT, 9.12A and Su-27, it needs some buff potentially.
G.91YS: 9.7>9.3
Let’s be real, this is kinda meh.
F-104G(IT, CN): 10.7>10.3
Their gameplay is effectively terminated when 10.7 does not see 90% of the matches being downtiers, since AIM-7F or R-24R equates to instant back to hanger screen ticket. While it is the problem with BR compression, they should more or less have their BR reduced.
F-104S/S TAF: 11.0>10.7
Same as above, and for the premium equivilant.
F-104S.ASA: 11.3>11.0, or access to AIM-9L/I at 11.3
Mostly same as above. However there is an alternative for the ASA since the AIM-9L/I provides a very high kill potential, and compensates the bad airframe - much similar to the MF1C/MF1C-200.
F-16A ADF(IT): 12.0>12.3 with access to AIM-9L/I
Italy literally has no 12.3 jets. This will be a good placeholder before typhoons, by giving it a decent IR missile.
J-8F: 11.7 to 11.3
It is arguably worse than the Kurnass 2K at most aspects bar the FM. It does have HMD and turns a lot better, but the Kurnass 2K makes it up with a better A2G arsenal.
All Bomber-role vautours: Rank 6 > Rank 5
Vautours are no longer able to act as a bomber effectively, given the fact that they all lost their air spawn.
M2K-CS-5: stays at 11.7
The CS-5 only has access to 36 extra flares. I suppose they are not enough for a 0.3 BR gap.
M2K-5F: stays at 12.0
Despite having really good missiles, the M2K-5F has the same issue as the Yak-141 as they are unpopular due to low missile count, while the 141 trades worse FM and radar for really good SARHs.
AH-64A, AH-64A(HEL), Peten, AH-64A Peten: 11.3>11.0
The lack of MAW and effective high-velocity missiles has hindered their performance.
-Tanks-
Every French 7.7: stays at 7.7
I know baguettes are not for everyone, but if it tastes bad, please write bad reviews to the bakery and not nerf French tanks, BRUHHHHHHHHH.
OTOMATIC: 11.3>10.7, or lifting the APFSDS limit
Despite other tanks such as arietes suffering from many issues as well, they are fixable just by restoring armor values and weapon optics. On the other hand, the OTOMATIC is mechanically challenged due to their inability to engage any fast-movers that are aware enough. Reducing its BR down to 10.7 should also provide the KF41 with a bit of use - if the latter does not get moved down to 10.3 itself. Alternatively, reward players who has the balls that trucks to top tier Italy with a 2S38 that ate all the pizza.
KF41: 10.7>10.3, copied to the German tree.
Germany players should learn how terrible the vehicle they begged on for so long is. They too should play the worst IFV in the game.
Leopard 40/70: 5.0>7.3, with access to HE-VT belts
If the salty Germanics are too unhappy with a leopard that shreds tigers and panthers, why not make it do the job it always meant to do? The leopard 40/70 does have access to HE-VT after all, and the ZSU-57-2, shilka and SIDAM are all too limited to short ranges.
All Leclercs: 11.7>11.3
They are in a really bad look. As mentioned above, while arietes can be fixed by fixing armors and optics, the leclercs has one big issue: almost nonexistent surviability. For this reason, it should be justified to put them down to 11.3.
-Naval-
Town-Class series(Liverpool, Belfast, Southampton): 5.7>5.3
The British shipbuilding doctrines, especially coming to “colonial cruisers” has not been proven well to the environments of warthunder. Their lack of survivability is the true problem, and the lack of any form of means to fight capital ships.
16 Likes
and finally move the ZSU-57-2 to the light tanks line
The F-5E should go up no questions asked. The F-5C is more up for debate.
I know how to use a delta, don’t turn run away whatever. The issue is, you can’t get them with missiles because of the cold engine, you can’t take a head-on because their guns are better, you can’t dogfight because their FM is too good, the damage model is still bugged.
Like they can catch a Mig-21MF or SMT after doing a 180 degree turn on the deck, and don’t tell me its bullshit because its happened to me, its happened to others, its happened in YT videos etcetera. You bleed speed dodging the guns too. The things will chase you for ages and you can’t reasonably turn around because even after a minute of flying straight you will only have like 4km of seperation.
This!
4 Likes
You mentioned helicopters as well, but i didnt see any on the list. did i miss something?
I think Falcon is an RB and BR8.3 is unreasonable. There is no search radar or locking ability. As expected, it’s too high, so I don’t think the BR increase is commensurate with BR, so I think it’s better to keep it at BR8.0. Also, I feel that FG1 is RB and BR11.3 are too harsh on F4J (UK) and FGR.2. I feel that around BR11.0 is just right.
2 Likes
They are balanced. I shred a handful of berezhoks and derivatisyas with 25mm KBA that shoots darts even more rapidly.
Also the 2S38s LWS seems to be broken since they almost never smoke when a hellfire goes to their face.
It’s 20g. Personally I think strela at 10.0 would be fine due to lack of thermals and search system meaning you rely on your mk.1 eyeball.
1 Like
They should be given AIM-9Ls and stayed at 11.3. Since if they are downed to 11.0, the F-4E/EJ should then be downed further, which meant planes such as kfir and J35D/XS who are worse should be downed again etc. Compression is bad, but this is just compressing stuff further.
1 Like
I just realized how historical this quote is too, since thats why F-16s are in Italy during the 90s.
Char 25 going to 8.0 xD U guys are delusional
1 Like
The ideal solution is to give them thermals, and then rename the vehicle to strela-10M3, so it is balanced at 10.0.
Then why dont one just use a 2S38?(well its exaggerated but)
1 Like
Yeah… No,… missiles works vs F-5’s you’re just too demanding.
They really don’t like baguettes
Mirage being the only 12.0 to move to 12.3 feels like a mistake while the 11.0 planes are getting brutalized by f-16s and Mig 29s.
Also where is the 2S38? That thing should have been 11.0 AGES ago.
4 Likes
Lmao, they they can flare right before it hits and the rise time mechanic still will not stop my 9G or J or R-13 from slamming them, the only effective counter is radar missiles and thats if they are stupid enough to not dodge the shitty one’s at that br.
Its a fact they burn too cold, the bug report is there, its also very obvious that missiles do hardly anything against them as you have to get within 1.5km of them to lock half the time even on full afterburner.
I played the F-5E when it used to face F-16 / Mig-29 and it had 0 chance against them. That´s why it went to 10.7, remember? I am not asking to keep it at 10.7, rather raise the F-16 / Mig-29 higher ok?
Now here is my list after spading nearly every single German tank and plane (only 5 planes left to fully spade the tree).
RB Germany planes:
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Do217 N1 / N2 / E2 / E4 - BR 2.0
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Do217 K1 - BR 2.3
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Do217 M1 - BR 2.7
Why are they so high in the first place? Made out of paper, my tail torn off every single time I got hit even with british 7mm MG. Turns worse than a B-29 and extremely slow. I just don´t understand. The only one I got some results was the M1 in a full downtier. What a horrible experience spading them I tell ya. -
Do 335 A0 / A1 - BR 3.7
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Do 335 B2 - BR 4.0
They are boats with bugged FM and extremely high drag. One bullet hits you and you either burn or you turn into an even bigger brick.
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Fw 190 A4 - 3.7
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Fw 190 A5 / A5U12 / A8 - 4.0
Swap position of Fw 190 D9 with Fw 190 A5. I think your intern made a mistake there when you implemented foldering recently.
Also about a year ago you completely bricked the elevator authority of iconic planes nicknamed the Butcher Birds. Even a Russian bomber outmaneuvers the Fw 190 these days. Either fix the FM, or implement my proposal. -
Me 410 B6R3 - 4.3
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Bf 109Z - 4.0
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Bf 109 K4 / G10 - BR 5.3 and folder with G14.
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Ta 152C3 - BR 6.0
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Ho 229 - BR 6.7 or restore full HVAP belt and un-nerf gun accuracy.
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He 162 - BR 6.3 - it´s absolutely OP at 6.0.
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Me 262 A1 / A1U1 / A JABO - 6.7
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Me 262 C1 - 7.0
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Me 262 C2 - 7.3
These planes have been overtiered for the longest time. Time to ease the suffering. -
Hunter F58 - BR 10.0 - it´s very OP at 9.7 and unfair for the enemies.
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CL13MK6 - 9.0
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F84F - 7.0. I am sorry but I am not touching this plane. IMO the flight model must be bugged. This might be the worst performing plane in WT and maybe even if you stick it at 7.0 it would still suffer.
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Mig 19S - 9.7
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Mig 23BN - 10.0
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F104G - 11.0
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F-4F - 11.3 and give AIM9L + it´s historical Maverick capability (3x + 3x loadout)
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Mig 21MF - 10.7
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Tornado ASSTA / MFG - 11.0
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Mig 29A / G - 13.3
Ground vehicles RB:
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Sd.Kfz.251/21 - 2.7
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Ostwind 2 - 4.7
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Kugelblitz - 6.3
I am sorry but Germany with USA has the worst SPAA line in the entire game. That is unacceptable considering the brutal allied CAS raids, players have to endure and instead of SPAA, people have to rely on spawning fighters. -
Pz IV G/H/J - move to rank III
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Sd.Kfz.234/2 - move to rank III
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Leopard I - 7.7. It´s too OP at 7.3 but it gets outclassed by contemporaries at 8.0.
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MAUS - 7.3
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Panther II - 6.7
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PUMA - 9.7
General RB suggestion:
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F-16 A all - 13.3
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F-16C - 13.7
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Mig 29 all - 13.3
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Su 27 / J-11 - 13.7
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Jas39 all - 13.7
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F-14 all - 13.3
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F-15A - 13.3
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F-15C - 13.7
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Mirage 2000 all - 12.7
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Yak3 - 5.7
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Yak3UFO - 6.3
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Su-11 - 7.7
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BTRZD - 6.3
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M53/59 - 7.0
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Strela-10M2 - 9.7
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ZSU-23-4 - 8.3
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ZSU-37-2 - 8.0
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2S38 - 11.3
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BMP2M - 11.7
Regarding SB:
I don´t understand why american F-4E is at 10.7 while the worse German F-4F is at 11.0. Make them both 11.3.
- T-2 - 10.3
- F104J - 10.7
- F104G both - 10.7
4 Likes
T20 to 6.3?
How about this?
T20 stays at 6.0, the M26 goes back to 6.3
7 Likes