That would be cool if it wasn’t for how useless / unreliable those top-down AGMs are.
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Right back at you, you are not providing any reasonable argument for it being moved down beside “its mid to play”.
On that I absolutely agree.
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But, again, this cant apply universally. Take the aforementioned Katyusha.
How would you even start making it useful/viable?
Clearly there are vehicles meant to be gimmicks.
Thats gaijin overreacting to release state TOW-2Bs im afraid.
Why can’t that be an reasonable argument though?
The fact is that its main way of killing vehicles can’t kill vehicles is quite concerning.
The 20mm is practically useless other than against some SPAAs, rocket-running helis and side-shots against IFVs.
At least the CM25 gets I-TOWs.
That is the whole point, It performs rather horridly against other vehicles at its tier and in a uptier it gets destroyed and has no chance since it faces more modern tanks like the T-55 and T-62 etc, Where it does litterarly diddly squat and cant really do anything when some enemies has strong autocannons and Thermals
Lot of vehicles are mid to play. I can think of several vehicles that would feel amazing to play if they were just moved down in BR a little.
Obviously that is not sustainable in long term because inevitably you wont be able to move stuff further down.
Katyusha can be useful. I wouldn’t say it’s META but at 2.7 I could see it holding down a road somewhat easily.
Buffing / reducing their BRs.
Sturmtiger already has a massive reload buff that is rather ahistorical for the sake of gameplay.
They used to be OP but now they’re extremely underwhelming.
Sure, though the things that are causing them to be mid can be moved up too.
No matter how low you move down the BILL, its ATGMs will still do no damage.
It would be great at 7.3 but at that point there problem clearly is the ATGMs doing no damage and not the BR.
8.3 would help it be a little more useable but it wouldn’t really change the core issue tbh.
Thats not a good arguement, That means there should be discussions to moving or changing vehicles so it fixes the issue so the game gets more ballanced and so vehicles faces equal threats?
Simply saying dont fix anything is not helping the game
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First time hearing it, wont comment further as I dont play low BRs beside occasionaly introducing friend to the game, so i cant really judge.
As mentioned previously you inevitably run iut if BRs to move stuff down.
And still remains a relatively gimmick vehicle.
Thats what i am getting at.
Gaijin could start by fixing the top down attack missiles, which would help a lot more vehicles than just Pbv ;)
Then they might become mid to play and might need to be buffed by reducing their BR and…oh wait.
Anyway imma hop off to jump on a train to get home now, good luck uh- with whatever you all are doing. Ill be back later i guess lol
Never said that ;)
How about we fix top down attack missiles in general, as that will help more than just one vehicle, and see from there? ;)
More systemic solution.
Its the reality.
Some vehicles will never be able to face equal threats.
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I think a more dogshit rocket launcher vehicle would be the BM-8-24 lmao.
A usable one though.
I don’t think people are complaining about how unusable it is.
It fills its niche well, unlike the BILL.
I agree, and I wouldn’t mind that.
Maybe then the BILL could be usable at 8.7 or even be moved up to 9.0.
At the moment / In the meantime, though, the best solution at that point is to lower its BR so that it doesn’t have to face RF + APFSDS + STAB / LRF + APFSDS + STAB / LRF + Thermals + APFSDS vehicles all the time.
Those uptiered vehicles would then become mid to play… which would then cause those other overperforming vehicles to move up and then they become mid to play… which then causes more decompression… and then more decompression…
Isn’t that good?
Things that need to go down are vehicles that can’t stay at its BR without pushing every other vehicle up.
If we compare the BILL to other 8.7s, it’s one of the worst 8.7s out there. Even in its niche role it is barely usable.
Even at 8.3 it’s still bad but it doesn’t have to face much more usable / superior / meta vehicles as before.
It’s not like it would ‘midify’ all 8.3 vehicles.
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If we got BR changes severa times a year and more than 1% of player feedback got implemented and max BR was raised more than once a year, sure.
Im always hands down for decompression.
Until we get it, i dont think solutiuon is to “move stuff down in the meantime”.
Its how we got 12.7 F-15A.
True. But that one is objectively a gimmick vehicle that cant be balanced, so these things are clearly allowed to exist
Hell its a premium so its more outrageous that it is a gimmick vehicle, rather than TT one.
Is that inherently bad thing?
Again, gimmick vehicle. Its lowest BR top down attack ATGM vehicle.
No one said this gimmick needs to be meta.
It will still meet vehicles that will clap it. Hell wiesel will rip it apart and that thing sits at much lower BR - but that doesnt mean Pbv is 7.3(7?) vehicle.
Locust can theoretically kill Abrams, doesnt make it equal.
I think the difference between the F-15A and the BILL is that the F-15A is relatively underequipped at 13.0 but the BILL would still be relatively unusable at 8.3.
Yeah I don’t know why it exists other than for the sake that it exists.
I think it would be great if every vehicle can be usable, though sometimes it’s basically impossible to do so (as with the BM-8-24).
BILL and F-15A is quite possible, though.
Not saying that.
I agree that not all vehicles have to be META, like I said before.
I’m saying that if they aren’t META, they should be viable at filling a niche and be USABLE.
Top-down AGMs would be a nice niche that could be usable in some circumstances but the BILL currently doesn’t fill that niche effectively.
It sure will. Again, it’s a niche vehicle.
It shouldn’t be 7.3 because its then the 500mm pen top-down AGMs (regardless of how mediocre they currently are) is a lot more useful.
Exactly.
BILL is only better in one specific niche than other vehicles.
If it can do that niche well then it can be a fun vehicle.
At the moment it can’t and so it isn’t.
It is, but there is some nuance behind it (top down ATGMs being bad as a whole, and as such issue not limited to BILL) so there needs to be more thought out solution rather than just “lets move X down in BR”
BILL would be relatively unusable at whatever BR (with exception of maybe some ridiculous BR like 2.7?) simply because gaijin borked the missile type in the first place.
Fix the missile, see how it performs, THEN we can talk about BR adjustments.
It would be as if Sparrow suddenly lost proxy fuze or explosive mass and someone proposed to move F-15A down in BR to compensate for that. Sure, but F-15A is not the only plane affected and Sparrows shouldnt remain in this state in the first place.
Should they? Or rather, should they neccesarily be usable?
So lets fix the niche.
He’s kinda obese though.
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Chungus- No but the Bradley had Alot of tightly packed stuff in the tank that can absorb damage the big Engine and transmission in the front helps somewhat- The Pbv 302 i think is about as big as the Bradley for the hull atleast or it might be that the Bradley seems smaller than what i Imagine to the Pbv 302