Pbv 302 (BILL) should it go down to 8.3 / 8.0?

[karnitin75]

Ah so both the amx-10p, U-sh 204gk and Pbv 302 Bill should be redesignated to Light tanks and then given the same perks and scouting so they can do their job

[Herojure24]

Basically. The amx-10p already has scouting I think so I honestly have no idea why it is still classed as an SPAA.

[karnitin75]

The Wiesel is in the same position lol

[Beeschurger]

@karnitin75

You’re arguing this from a realism standpoint, but that just doesn’t apply to War Thunder anymore. The game already mixes completely different generations of tech, so singling out top-attack missiles as something that “shouldn’t face 1950s tanks” is pretty arbitrary

Its stupid decision.

ATGMs might as well be eldritch horrors to the idea of warfare these tanks were meant to fight in.

Its not even immersion argument, this kind of stuff simply kills certain playstyles on certain maps.

Take Pzh2000.

Trying to snipe on maps like sands of sinai is borderline suicidal. By the time im still roughly estimating range theres a 155mm HE shell flying my way. Even if i fire immidiately after, miss and make adjustments by observing its impact, Pzh2000 will fire what, two more times by the time im still reloading?

@karnitin75

More importantly, you’re treating the Pbv 302 like the missile is inherently overpowered or that its too technologically advanced and would ruin immersion?

lol no

I already said i dont think its OP.

@karnitin75

The only real difference is that it wouldn’t constantly face vehicles it can barely affect, like BMP-2s or more modern MBTs.

Oh poor Pbv302 BILL. Sole vehicle in entire game suffering from this.

@karnitin75

it just means accepting that certain vehicles are ineffective a lot of the time

Yeah, as it should be.

We really dont need to push vehicles to stupidly low BRs just to make them playable, because some vehicles simply will never be playable due to their nature - an engineering abomination, or extremely outdated vehicle that was “upgraded” to increase its combat worth even if the real combat worth would be non-existent.

@karnitin75

And that’s not really balance. That’s just wanting to decide which vehicles are allowed to be playable.

Some vehicles will be gimmicks. Take Sturmtiger. Or should it be also put at some ridiculously low BR to make it playable?

[Beeschurger]

@Red_warning

“oh crap, I might have to fight the BILL” is not the first thing that would pop up in my head

Neither would be mine, funny as it sounds.

[rainy2000]

@karnitin75

The Cv 9035 is actually decent at its br when its spaded, the Cv 9030 is another story, The mobility and basic protection is- Decent. But the Fire-rate and Damage is not all that great.

I mean, it’s just the CV9030 with slightly better penetration and slightly better spalling.
It still struggles to engage tanks with remotely good armour front-on. Not that you should but because it can be a common circumstance, even with their mobility.
I think a 0.3 BR decrease (or more) for all 30mm - 35mm 200 RPM auto-cannon only vehicles would be fair.

[karnitin75]

@Beeschurger

Some vehicles will be gimmicks. Take Sturmtiger. Or should it be also put at some ridiculously low BR to make it playable?

The Sturmtiger has a decent amount of armour frontally, yes you shoot the rocket but that was a “Meme event tank” Such as the Katyusha and other rocket artillery vehicles. The Pbv 302 Bill is a TT vehicles trying to fit a role it cant fit in no matter how much you try to brute force it into that slot.

[Beeschurger]

@karnitin75

The Pbv 302 Bill is a TT vehicles

So what?

You acknowledge existence of “meme tanks”, but TT vehicles cant fit into that group?

Why?

[karnitin75]

@Beeschurger

Neither would be mine, funny as it sounds.

Than why are you making such a fuss over the Potential Br decrease? Is it the sole principle its a Top-Down ATGM? Or do you simply not like the vehicle for some reason?

[Beeschurger]

@karnitin75

Than why are you making such a fuss over the Potential Br decrease?

Im allergic to stupid suggestions.

[karnitin75]

@Beeschurger

You acknowledge existence of “meme tanks”, but TT vehicles cant fit into that group?

Why?

I classify the Locust and L3 and Wiesel and ASU-57 as meme vehicles

[rainy2000]

8.3 doesn’t seem unreasonable.

[karnitin75]

@Beeschurger

Im allergic to stupid suggestions.

Can you make a clear statement of why the br decrease to 8.3 or 8.0 would ruin anything or make it OP etc.

[Beeschurger]

So why the Pbv cant fit into that group lol

[karnitin75]

I mean i dont consider it a meme vehicle, its doesent stand out in any regard, its a mid vehicle its neither super small or super big, Its not the maus or has the biggest gun. The tank is just meh,

[Beeschurger]

@karnitin75

Can you make a clear statement of why the br decrease to 8.3 or 8.0 would ruin anything

I cant since it isnt issue of ruining anything, as i stated previously.

I can however repeat myself - not every vehicle needs to be competetive. Some can and frankly should remain as gimmicks.

[rainy2000]

These ‘meme’ tanks don’t have to be meta, but at least useful / viable.
BILL may not be a great vehicle in most cases (same with Sturmtiger, same with AMX-10M, same with Khrizantema) but they should excel in one particular niche to be useful / viable.

Sturmtiger can nuke thing over obstacles fairly reliably, while also having some good upper hull armour.
AMX-10M has 7.5s reload 500m/s ATGMs at 7.3 with good mobility. That’s pretty good at long-range maps.
The Khrizantema is similar to the AMX-10M except it is at a higher BR since it can hide most of its vehicle behind cover.

The BILL would be great at getting enemies out of cover / killing enemies that are behind small cover but at the moment it barely does anything and is rather unreliable.

[karnitin75]

Than you are arguing about litterarly nothing except for trying to stir up an arguement just for the sake of arguing?

You are just opposed to it being moved down, You dont have a real reason besides the fact you think its a gimmick vehicle that should just be left where its at “Just because”?

[Beeschurger]

@karnitin75

its doesent stand out in any regard

I guess being lowest BR vehicle with top down attack ATGMs doesnt count?

[karnitin75]

I would honestly prefer a Standard ATGM since gaijin does not know how to Model top-Down Damage and spalling