Those don’t give a large advantage over others, while bushes do. Camouflages aren’t able to completely obscure tanks, or hide weakspots.
It does not give a large advantage. it can hide your tank ( you know like camouflage is suppose to do ) to give you time to take a shot or not get shot but only works in head on. It doesn’t add any armor, it doesn’t modify reload speed. You can get one for free every few battle passes, or just spend the money to get a few.
If you get put into a situation where you get killed, its not the bush that caused it… Its your own actions that caused you to be put into that situation and you are using bushes as an excuse for why you died.
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Do you really have to be this uncharitable and this incapable of reading what you are even replying to?
The issue is not that bushes exist.
The issue is that you can only acquire them through FOMO battlepass which is time-gated in a very narrow part of the year or paying for it.
If bushes were like squadron vehicles, ace crews or something like that - very long, very slow grinds but ones you can work on year long - people would still complain as they do about crew skills - but at least it’d be realistically achievable by anyone.
As it is right now, they’re not.
Is it my fault I only started playing warthunder again at the tail-end of the Northern Kings battlepass, and likely won’t have time to get level 57 the next battlepass cycle either?
Tank camoflague is unlocked by getting kills. That’s a fair and acceptable mechanic.
You can unlock bushes in the battle passes by doing daily challenges, this makes it a fair and acceptable mechanic.
Since you can also buy the camo’s with GE and you can buy the bushes with GE this again is a fair and acceptable mechanic. your whole argument is moot
oh and the whole thread was due to wanting to remove bushes from GRB. So please try and understand the whole thread before being uncharitable and ncapable of reading
No it is not.
Can I work and get a bush right now?
No, I cannot. I need to play during a very narrow, very specific time of the year with a time limit that if I fail to fulfil, all my progress is lost as if I had done nothing at all towards the bushes.
It also needs level 57 battlepass.
Challenges can help speed it up, but they’re only available for ~2 weeks each. Even for the current battlepass, due to being busy at its start - I’d been unable to complete some 5 entire challenges as I was outright too late for them - or couldn’t play enough matches within the few days I had left until expiry to satisfy their requirements.
Do you realize how long level 57 battlepass takes? Daily tasks give you 5 battlepass points. Daily log-ins give you a slowly scaling +1-+5.
Those 5 battlepass points for your dailies also take ~2-3 hour easily. Yesterday I had fairly easy tasks: Get 2 ARB wins, kill 12 as fighter. Those 2 ARB wins took me ~45 minutes due to match length, then the 12 fighter kills took me 4 games - 4 games: 80 minutes. I’ve spent 2 hours doing the battlepass. This is on the side of a good challenge - 50% activity win is easy to control at the right BR with the right plane and playstyle, 12 kills is pure personal effort rather than RNG. Now, this BP I regularly had BP tasks that required me to do unreasonable bollocks like “Do X and win” where X is anything other than activity, or my favourite: rerolling 5 times to be asked to either repair 2 friendlies or “according to intelligence.” One of my ‘favourite’ experiences was trying to get the teamwork battlepass task done and I repeatedly had no squadmate, had a potato for a squadmate who refused to leave spawn or one death leaved or was otherwise detrimental to the requirement of “and win.” I once tried to do the daily in sim EC: Kill 3 enemy strike craft. I killed plenty of player planes - they were all bombers, fighters or interceptors. Not a single strike craft in a 90 minute game.
Out of my ~55 or something log-ins this battlepass, I only managed to do daily tasks 30 times as I flat out didn’t have time for them on some of those days.
So, we need to gather 570 battlepass points where you can only gain ~5 + 1-5 each day. You cannot spam Special Tasks as they cost 30 warbonds and even getting the aigle was impossible on exactly level 37 wb level - due to special task medal requirements, I was 200 warbond short of buying it. Bushes fortunately only need 5 medals, but 5 medals also means you’re only getting 25 bp points from that.
And again, the best part?
If I get to BP level 40 and then something comes up IRL - all that 40 levels are gone. Next year I need to start from scratch.
If I miss the first 2 months - I flat out don’t have time to get to level 57 (especially since the easy and quick challenges tend to be on season start, while at the end you get weird stuff like “kill a tank while moving at 30 mph” or “get naval player kills with a bomber.”
So no.
You cannot reasonably get them for free.
You can try in a very FOMO way, but…
Tell me how can I get a bush for free right now.
I can work towards my ace crew right this moment.
I can work towards squadron vehicles right this moment.
I can work towards getting a top tier vehicle right this moment.
I can work towards unlocking camoflagues for desert and winter terrains right this moment.
I cannot for bushes. Even if I play straight for 72 hours without sleeping, getting top 3 placement each game I will never get a bush.
Why? Because wrong time of the year. Hell, even if I play the right time of the year - I won’t be able to get a bush doing that if I can only do it for 3 days and not the 30 or so required.
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The issue has never been the existence of camouflage decorations in War Thunder.
The issue is how they are modeled on to tanks ingame.
This is not realistic, and it provides more coverage of the outline than it would in real life.
Versus something in real life such as this:
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Several of these vehicles are in stationary positions and aren’t meant to provide camouflage during actual battle but rather from air / air recon.
You still need to be able to see out of driver ports to be able to use a tank. Gaijin should update models to require unrestricted access to view ports.
So you complain that it takes too long to get to lvl 57 of a battle pass, it takes longer to get to a free ace crew than to get to lvl 57
Yea i have an idea
It seems your argument is not the bushes but your issue is one you cant afford it, and two your impatient and you want them free now.
No, I don’t want it for free now.
I will happily do a 400 hour grind for it.
Provided I can gain progress whenever I log in, and that progress does not disappear into the aether.
And that I’m not punished for playing for a month and then being busy for a month or two.
You completed all 10 challenges. This means you’ve been playing every single day, you did not have the inability to NOT play for 2-3 week periods. That’s a pretty significant part of it.
There’s 5 challenges I could not complete because I showed up too late. Is that my fault for having a life with obligations?
FOMO is universally seen as a horrible anti-consumer practice. Many more consumer friendly games are actively moving away from it - Deep Rock Galactic for instance has probably the industry standard for good consumer treatment.
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Time is money and that is the whole basis of how they fun WT. You can get something for free but it will have a varied time frame, and if you dont have the time you can buy them.
6.6 USD gets you 1,000 GE which will give you two bushes. I never really liked micro transaction so i didnt really want to buy them. i ended up buying one or two here and there over a few years. in the end if its not in your budget and you cant get the time to log in and just get daily done with a special task then your out of luck, but theres no reason to take away that opportunity for others because you dont have the money or the time to get it done.
Oh completely… dont even get me started on those gambling boxes worst part of WT IMO
I don’t want to take it away from others.
I want it to be changed to work like squadron vehicles/acing a crew.
Something along these lines:
- You can pay for a bush. This bush is “Universal” and can be placed multiple times on multiple tanks simultenously.
- You can try to earn a “Universal” bush using battlepass like you can earn premium vehicles today.
- You can also earn a “specific” bush after completely spading a vehicle and experting its crew. Hell, maybe even require acing it! After all, ace crews understand the importance of camoflague. Whatever pre-conditions are implemented and then met, you can begin collecting modification RP towards your single bush roll.
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This bush roll unlocks a single bush without duplicate protection each time you meet the treshold modifications RP AND pay SL for it like you do for gambling crates. Once you acquire this single bush, it can only be used on the vehicle that unlocked it with the experted/aced crew slot that unlocked it as well. This is meant to introduce frustration and inconvenience for line-up management and to reduce acquisition rates.
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For how much modifications RP you should obtain? I’d scale it by tier and make it require ~200 hours of optimal play (optimal play: you do not die the entire match, thus getting full RP towards modifications reward and assume 90% activity for a 20 minute game. For example, a tier 3 vehicle should require around 300 000 modification RP AFTER acing the crew. Any RP gained before acing the crew does not count. Bonuses from premium DO count - thus driving sales as a potential nudge towards those on the edge of maybe investing during sales.
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And you need to repeat this for each roll at a single bush.
(sorry for the wall of text. tried to give paragraphs while maintaining indentation but it still looks weird)
See how grindy it is? Especially the optimal play part? Most players cannot survive a whole game in a single vehicle (without backups - and backups are a source of income potentially!) and maintain 90% activity - thus they’ll earn less RP and spend 300 or even 400 hours rather than the advertised 200.
People will see it as impossible and buy bushes as the ones you buy are more useful and less frustrating.
I’d be super down for it. Why? Your progress isn’t lost and you can work towards it any time.
I’m fine with grindy messes.
Its very silly to pretend bushes give NO advantage, when they very clearly do, or else why use them, in game or real life, lol.
But they are overstated a bit. I wish they werent so meta, or at least so ugly.
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The camo netting is the prettiest to me, they can make money by selling camo netting for every vehicles that never used them irl, I know I would buy it just for decoration purposes. Like King Tiger with camo netting, hell yeah, T-10M with camo netting? my wallet is ready.
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The nets do look very nice, seeing those added to more tanks would be very nice. They could even make it a GE only thing if they want. Maybe marketplace nets?
I have much less of an issue with camo nets. On top of just looking better, since they’re tailored to the vehicle they can be balanced. Notice how they don’t break up the sillohette of the tank at all, nor disguise the weakspots.
Bushes are primarily problematic because of how they’re rendered and how they can be applied to tanks. You can slap them on any surface and creative a nigh opaque wall of bushes that completely obscures the tank and/or its weakspots. That can’t be replicated with pre-applied camo nets, so I have no problem with them.
How is it unrealistic? In alot.of wars, camouflage was used to conceal. How else do you think tank destroyers were so successful?
ive spend 11 years in the army, and you wouldn’t believe how much time ive spend hiding stuff from the enemy, being with nets or with stuff we found in the nature.
So hardly unrealistic.
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That photo displays one of the in-game flaws of bushes as-is: note the exposed crewmen operating the tank with hatches opened.
Certainly camouflaging measures have been used for ages…but WT unnaturally lacks many of the drawbacks camo imposed upon its own user too.
If bushes are obstructing such things as sights or viewports, bushes must incur limitations on these things or the bushes are not behaving in a realistic manner. That potential disparity has balance implications.
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I’d also love to see how that tank looks after driving at top speed, off road and through obstacles. Leafy branches are not exactly sturdy, and it’s not like they’re welded to the tank. Odds are pretty good that after a few miles of rough driving, a decent chunk of the leaves, if not the branches themselves, would have been stripped off.
There’s a reason bushes are almost always seen on tanks in static ambush positions, and are not standard equipment for large, mobile tank rushes.
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