PATRIA NEMO (M153A4 Crows) - Collaboration between Kongsberg & Patria

Suggestions Ground
1

PATRIA NEMO (M153A4 Crows)

TYPE: Single-barrel, remote-controlled self-loading mortar system

ARMAMENT

Spoiler

  • 1x 120mm smoothbore breech loading mortar cannon
    Breech: Half-automatic wedge
    Recoil: Hydro-pneumatic suspension
    Elevation: −3° to +85°
    Traverse: 360°
    Rate of fire: 10 rounds/minute (max); 6 rounds/minute (sustained)

  • 1x M153A4 Crowsh tech refresh remote controlled weaponstation
    -Thermal sight: 3rd Gen TS-III
    -Color Day Camera: 1° to 45° with continuous Field of View (FOV)
    -Thermal: 3° & 11.0 ° FOVs (standard CROWS); up to 45° wide FOV (Tech Refresh)
    -Four-axis targeting system; Three-axis vector stabilization; Laser range-finder; Auto scan/auto focus; Auto lead/auto tracker

    • Primary armament: 12.7x99mm M2 Browing Machinegun
      -Machinegun: M2 Browning
      -Ammunition mixture (2x MP, 1x MP-T) :
      -Armor penetration RHAe NM160MP-T: 22 Millimeter at 100 Meter
      -Armor penetration RHAe NM140MP: 10.6 Millimeter at 100 Meter

TECHNICAL DATA
Mass: 1,900 kg
Barrel length: 3,000mm
Crew: Unmanned turret, 3 in vehicle + driver
Length: 7.5m
Width: 2.9m
Height: 2.5m
Armor: STANAG 4569 level K2, M2a/b (Optional level K4, M4a/b)
Engine: DC 09 Scania AB Diesel 294 kW (394 hp)
Power/weight: 18.3 to 12.25 kW/t
Drive: 6×6 wheeled
Transmission: 7 gears forward+2 gears backwards
Suspension: independent coil springs (optional hydropneumatic suspension)
Operational range: 700 km
Maximum speed on land: over 100 km/h
Maximum speed on water: up to 8 km/h

HISTORY
In June 2020 the Norwegian company Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace and the Finnish comapny Patria Oyj agreed to a cooperation to work on the Patria Nemo mortar systems, central to the agreement is Patria’s Nemo mortar system. The partnership is based on Kongberg’s production capacity in the states and Patria’s long and world-leading experience in mortar systems. The cooperative relationship between Patria and Kongsberg has a long history, and this was further strengthened when Kongsberg Defence & Aerosystems in 2016 acquired a 49.9% stake in Patria.

In this agreement, a prototype has been made, with Patria’s Nemo and Kongsberg’s remote station M153A4 Crows, equipped one 12.7x99 M2 Browning machinegun. The vehicle has as far as i’ve seen not been put into service in this configuration anywhere, but a couple nations are considering and making up their mind, among these are the Usa.

This specific remote station is of the 153A4 CROWS and is built by Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace, and it is equipped with the Tech Refresh wich is an update to the weapon system wich enables it to carry the Javelin missile launcher, but this is not seen on this vehicle, but it has achess to the new and various other changes such as new thermal sights capabilities.

The hull is the Patria AMW 6x6 and was designed and produced by the Finnish compary Patria, it was pirmarely designed for troop transport, but it has the ability to be modified and configured to fit and integrate a lot of different weaponstation, turrets and stuff. The vehicle entered service for the first time in 2021.

There seems to be some misunderstanding but i have tried to write it herr but i write it again, this is valid for both Norway and Finland but in this suggestion i am suggesting it for Norway…

IN GAME
This could be an interesting vehicle in-game to be added for Norway, (wich is the nation i am suggesting this vehicle for), Finland and or potentially others like the usa. Its a mortar carrier, that can fire on the move and with the Kongsberg turret also fight low flying planes and lightly armored vehicles, it would also have acess to nighvision with that, increasing its abilities. I believe it would work great as an short to middle range vehicle, as the 120mm mortars would work very simlar to various howitzers.

AMMUNITION 120mm Mortars

Spoiler

  • 120mm MORTAR HE
    -HE: High explosive
    -Explosive filling: TNT (2.0 kg)
    -Shell body: Cast iron
    -Flying mass: 13.0 kg
    -Number of charges: 0+6
    -Muzzle velocity: 103–455 m/s
    Minimum/maximum range
    8 400 m (3 m barrel)
    8 000 m (2 m barrel)
    7 800 m (1.6 m barrel)
    Maximum gas pressure: ≤ 164 MPa (ESCP, STANAG 4110)
    Service temperature: -46°C to +63°C

  • 120mm MORTAR IR-SMK
    -IR-SMK: Infrared Smoke
    -Payload: Red phosphorus
    -Flying mass: 14.0 kg
    -Number of charges: 0+5
    -Muzzle velocity: 100–391 m/s
    -Minimum/maximum range: 300 m/8 300 m
    -Maximum gas pressure: ≤ 150 MPa (ESCP, STANAG 4110)
    -Obscuration capability: Visual/IR > 60 s
    -Service temperature: -46°C to +63°C

  • 120mm MORTAR ILLUMINATING ROUND
    Flying mass: 14.0 kg
    Number of charges: 0+5
    Muzzle velocity: 100–391 m/s
    Minimum/maximum range: 300 m/8 300 m
    Maximum gas pressure: ≤ 150 MPa (ESCP, STANAG 4110)
    Luminosity: 1 000 000 Cd
    Illuminating duration Minimum: 50 s

SOURCES

Spoiler

Kongsberg/Patria cooperation
Kongsberg og Patria inngår samarbeide på bombekaster systemer - KONGSBERG
KONGSBERG and Patria team to provide turreted mortar solutions - Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace
Finsk bombekaster kan bli produsert på Kongsbergs suksessfabrikk i USA | Tu.no
Kongsberg og Patria inngår samarbeide på bombekaster systemer - KONGSBERG

Patria Nemo test fired at Nammo’s shooting range along with others
Folk fra 33 land reiste til Raufoss for å se Nammo skyte biler i fillebiter | Tu.no

The vehicle in action
https://youtu.be/jPqcH8FJBdg?si=BxiPPdk3aB8EqjHy

Vehicle specs and cannon specs
Patria NEMO - Wikipedia

Vehicle history
Patria NEMO - Wikipedia

Ammunition data and specs
https://www.nammo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/nammo-handbook-2023.pdf

POLL

Would you like to see this in-game?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

This post was made by
Til_Dovre_Faller

2

2kg of tnt will penetrate like 26mm of armor…

3

Yep, its not the most powerful round, but against ifv’s and other lightly armored vehicles i am pretty sure it will have them knocked out with a couple rounds. It might have acess to other types of ammunition or warheads for the 120mm eound but i didn’t find anything about that

Don’t know about the penetration, but the fragments are peobably helpful

4

Patria markets their NEMO system as being capable of firing ANY standard 120mm smoothbore ammunition. What exactly “standard” means in this case, I don’t know, however, there are Russian and Chinese HEAT rounds for their smoothbore mortars. There’s also a Bulgarian 120mm smoothbore mortar bomb with a volume detonating warhead that features 9kg of TNT equivalence. Not sure if non-NATO 120mm rounds count as “standard” though.

NATO smoothbore mortar rounds just generally suck for War Thunder. The highest I’ve seen is 3.56kg of explosive so, unless a better round is found/developed or Gaijin makes some concessions, getting NATO 120mm gun/mortar vehicles in-game is gonna be hard.

2 Likes
5

Would like a vehicle like that, but a mortar would not exactly be very usefull exept very light vehicles and open tops.
The velocity of the shell and the extremly low gundepression would make it painful to play

IMG_9847
IMG_98471179×2556 955 KB

6

i found very little on the Ammunition tough, so there are probably some ammo i’ve missed

7

Nammo is the producer of the mortal shells for Finland, so it’s very likely they use the regular 120 HE shells from Nammo.
Would be a fun vehicle if it had some sort of HEAT with a good ROF and mobility

Edit: ROF was much lower than i remembered

1 Like
8

6 seconds reload is probably a bit long, i can see if i find more about the ammunition

9

I waa thinking of the AMOS, twin barreled 120mm mortar.

10

aaa i see, thats one is quite higher, 12rpm

12

Alright. There might be hope for NATO 120mm gun mortars after all. The Swedish STRIX is an IR guided HEAT mortar bomb. Although it is guided, these guidance systems only matter when it is being used as a regular mortar bomb since the STRIX is terminally guided, meaning that the IR seeker only activates in the terminal phase of flight, which is quite a bit before impact with the target in the STRIX’s case.

I’m not sure if it’d even activate when the round is being used in the direct fire role since there would be much less time between firing and impact. The HEAT warhead, obviously, should work regardless of this. This means that, in the case of War Thunder, the STRIX should perform no different than any other low-velocity HEAT round in the vast majority of in-game situations.

There’s also just the option for Gaijin to ignore the round’s guidance altogether since the STRIX requires a brief manual programming that can easily be skipped. How skipping programming effects the round I don’t know, however, I think it’s fair to assume that it becomes a normal dumb mortar round.

4 Likes
13

Bro don’t give gaijin ideas lol, i can totally see them adding this with guidance and it being absolutely broken with drone spotting

14

Whilst not that big of an improvement, the Swedish mortar rounds carry ~3.5kg TNT equivalent of explosive, and there is one with a proxy fuze, which whilst having questionable effectiveness with the low muzzle velocity would give you some fighting back against planes as well (and it would be funny hitting a heli 20 seconds after shooting).

STRIX would probably be the main ammo though even if implemented as just a basic HEAT-round, with the SVINGGR 86Z as a backup emergency anti-air option.

1 Like
15

Even better could be the Swedish THOR, which also has a proxy fuse and 3.4kg of PBXN-110 (not sure what the TNT equivalent would be) with the option of an additional 1kg TNT blast explosive. Depending on PBNX-110’s equivalence, the THOR could potentially get us up to 40mm of penetration.

1 Like
16

How close is PBXN-110 to PBXN-109? The Wikipedia page for TNT equivalence claims PBXN-109 is a 1.17 relative effectiveness, which would make 3.4kg about 3.97kg TNT. Not a reliable source, Wikipedia, I know. Also not exactly the same explosive.

17

Looks like PBXN-110 has a relative effectiveness of 1.17 (if my 3AM sleep deprived math is correct) as well according to Source Physics Experiment 5 conducted in Nevada where 4288.7kg of PBXN-110 is said to be equivalent to 5035kg of TNT. This puts our mortar round up to 3.97kg of TNT, which is already on par with DM11 with 37mm of pen. The additional 1kg blast charge gets us to 4.97kg on TNT, which should just barely get us to 40mm, which isn’t all that bad.

18

Not very good either for the BR this thing needs to be at with a laser rangefinder, thermals and all that. But I wouldn’t deny it to anyone who wants it in the game. It’ll just probably not be a good vehicle. Not everything needs to be a meta carry vehicle after all.

1 Like
19

True. The main thing really is that it isn’t unusable and gives you a fighting chance if you’re caught with it loaded. The STRIX is obviously going to be your main round, however, it’s nice when your “anti-aircraft” round isn’t an immediate death sentence if you can’t switch back to the STRIX in time.

20

+1 for the Finnish subtree line.

1 Like