Panzer 61 AA1

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caid’s suggestion #65


The Panzer 61 AA 1 was the first variant of the Panzer 61 made by Federal Construction Switzerland. the tank introduced in 1961 was based on the Panzer 58 which was a pre-series of the same tank with a 84mm gun (originally), a weaker engine, and a Swiss engine for the turret rotation. the Panzer 61 featured a better engine, a 105mm gun, and the turret transverse engine from the French AMX 30 which was in development. the early version retained the 20mm coaxial auto-cannon to allow the crew to not waste a 105mm round on light targets such as armored cars (mainly for the BRDM and BTR) but this concept was abandoned in 1967 due to the low ammo count carried and the fact that they needed a LMG more than a 20mm against the infantry.
150 of those tanks were built. they formed the bulk of the Swiss tanks until the introduction of the Panzer 68 which was a more mobile and expensive version. even if the Panzer 68 turned out to be superior, the Panzer 61 remained in service until the mid-80s

there were 9 versions of the Panzer 61 that saw services. all named from AA1 to AA9. Another version also existed but they were named differently as the AA was for those in services. that version all feature something new, the difference was usually small and barely mattered to the view of the game, but sometimes the difference is important and could affect the gameplay… To help people understand the tank, I will include here a sort of recap of the family model by model

Spoiler

KW 30/52 (1952)= first model of the family, featuring Tiger’s engine and transmision, 90mm gun LMG coaxial, welded hull.

KW 30/57-I (1957) = new built tank. featuring a 20mm coaxial, sideskirt, and a 90mm gun in an early turret

KW 30/57-II (1957) = 2nd built tank. first tank who was essentially a Panzer 58. featuring a 90mm gun, same turret as the panzer 58 and have a 20mm coaxial

Panzer 58 prototype (1958)= Rearmed KW 30/57-II with a British 84mm gun. this tank was accepted to production and a pre-series was ordered

Panzer 58 (1961) = identical to the Panzer 58 Prototype but with a 105mm gun. a preseries of 10 tank was buit

Panzer 61 AA1 (1964)= nearly identical to the Panzer 58 but featuring the french Electro-hydolic turret transverse as later used on the AMX 30, slightly thicker armour and a 630 hp engine

Panzer 61 AA2 = modification Unknown but probably replace the 20mm for a 7.5mm lmg

Panzer 61 AA3 = modificaition Unknown

Panzer 61 AA4 = modificaition Unknown

Panzer 61 AA5 = modificaition Unknown

Panzer 61 AA6 = modificaition Unknown

Panzer 61 AA7 = modificaition Unknown

Panzer 61 AA8 (1976) = Thermal sleeve on the gun, Splasher sheild on the hullfront

Panzer 61 AA9 (1982) = Replacement of the 20mm coax by a 7.5mm Coaxial. update of the FCS to allow APFSDS and modification of the ammo rack to hold APFSDS, new Radio, new rangefinder

Firepower

The firepower of this tank will be quite interesting. not that the 105mm is particularly good as mid-era MBT, it is quite limited with APDS and HESH rounds only. a APFSDS could technically be used but the tank ammo rack couldn’t carry it before the AA9 version which specifically introduced the capacity to use the APFSDS in 1982. the armament became interesting mainly due to the powerful coaxial that can deal with soft targets and occasional aircraft. the reload rate, rotation and fire arc are pretty standard for the 105mm. the tank does not feature a stabilizer but it does have a coincidence rangefinder

Mobility

This tank has an average mobility over tanks of the same type (Patton, Centurion, T-54.) which is not the best of the best. but it’s not bad either. weighting 39.7 tonnes, this tank was fairly heavy. Featuring a Mercedes-Benz MB837.931-51 Ba 500, 29900cc, Diesel Supercharged V8 providing 630hp @2200rpm, the tank have a power-weight of around 15.5 hp/ton. the transmission is an SLM Winterthur, 6F/2R, Semi-Automatic. the tank is known to have a particularly sensitive steering which makes the tank prone to react to the driver’s command. feature that was also shared on the German Tiger 1 and probably heritated from the KW 30/52 who used the Tiger’s engine and transmission. the tank still has a pretty decent top speed of 51 km/h and is considered very agile despite its weight. this tank was designed to drive on the tight and dangerous alpine road.

Protection

The KW 30/57 was having a reviewed protection over the KW 30/52. the front of the hull was reviewed and rounded but retained the same thickness as the model from 1952 and was welded with 2 plates. the side armour was also reduced to 30mm but a spare track was added on the front. the turret was the most improved with the frontal armour passing to 100mm and the side armour to 50mm but the rear was also reduced to 35 mm. The tank also received 6 smoke launchers which were to be launched 2 by 2.

source

Primary

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2 Likes
2

+1.

3

If they will, and I very much would want them doing so, they should add it into the French tech tree

4

Unlikely now that France just got a Benelux subtree and the only Swiss vehicle is in the German tech tree.

5

what about just adding the Swiss vehicle to Switzerland? it has about as much unique stuff as Sweden has.

6

Considering that Benelux was denied by Gaijin due to a lack of vehicles, I see it as highly unlikely that a standalone Swiss tree will ever come.

7

Nah, not enough indigenius vehicles (and yes, I say this as a Swiss): There are a few tanks, plus a few trainer aircraft, but mostly we rely on imported weapon systems, although often quite a bit modified.

As to where a Swiss subtree could go, I still defend the opinion that Germany would be the best place, as it makes most sense geographically, culturally and historically.

Also, one could kinda form “geographical blocks” in Europe in WT that make sense:

Spoiler

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We could have an “Eastern Mediterranean” block around Italy, a “Western Mediterranean/Atlantic” block around France, the “Scandinavian” block around Sweden, an “Eastern Europe” block around Russia and - finally - a “Central Europe” block around Germany.

The “British” block then on the other hand cold include all the overseas countries affiliated at one point or another, like South Africa, Australia, …

1 Like
8

there is more than enough

plus there is many missing

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9

Well, not if you take actual Swiss Army vehicles instead of simply the MOWAG products brochures… ;-)

10

Mowag products are still Swiss vehicles.
if you take out the prototypes, you also end up lacking of vehicles in the most tech tree.

and I got a handful more that was just not put there as they where discovered after I made this. and the Austrian could be add as sub-tree to add some meat

1 Like
12

That’s less vehicles than Sweden.
About as many unique vehicles as China, which has the least unique vehicles in-game currently [this will change in the future].

Either way, I’m for Switzerland coming as a sub-tree or as part of a Pan-European tech tree.

13

🇨🇭 I counted 82 unique vehicles for 12 copy-paste or nearly copy-paste in the tree I show which is outdated
🇦🇹if I add the Austrian as sub-tree we get 94 unique vehicles and 22 copy-paste or nearly copy-paste.

🇸🇪Sweden currently has 56 unique vehicles and 29 copy-paste or nearly copy-paste.

I found new vehicles since and some more copy-paste too but I only add them when there is a real need.

overall, this tree is not bad at all.

🇯🇵Japan has 60 unique and 8 copies (two unique didn’t exist)
🇫🇷France has 73 unique and 13 copy paste
🇮🇹Italy has 69 unique and 21 copy-paste (two unique didn’t exist)
🇨🇳China has 42 unique and 36 copy-paste (1 C&P was not used and 1 is the wrong model)
🇮🇱Israel has 18 unique and 27 copy-paste (1 C&P is the wrong model)

of course, it depends on what makes a copy-paste by your definition. for me, it’s any vehicles that do not have a significant modification from the original found in another tech tree. sometimes the change of a gun for a very different one is enough; for example, the G-13 is a copy-paste of the Hetzer despite having a different but similar gun, while the G-13 SA50 is not a copy-paste to me as the gun is very different.

also, I may have missed a few vehicles when I counted. so do not be too picky about the difference of the number with someone else count.

so to me, the Swiss do not lack material. while France and China do have a lot more to add which could change a lot the situation, currently, the Swiss Tech Tree would not be much different. 🇬🇧UK, 🇺🇸USA, 🇷🇺Russia, and 🇩🇪Germany do not have much copy-paste so I didn’t care to count the ratio.

1 Like
14

Don’t take me wrong: If they ever add a Swiss tree, I’ll be super exited, no matter where and how! = )

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15

do not worry, we can discuss and debate an opinion and point of view without getting personal.

2 Likes
16

I counted at least 66 unique ground vehicles for Sweden. I counted up to 67, but I can’t remember if I counted 2 or not.

You also counted the proposal, many of which won’t be added for years even after.
Sweden has just as many total vehicles in its initial proposal.

Israel also only has 11 copy-paste, the rest are unique, or in that case of Chaparral and M109, added at the same time in other tech trees.

I think you might’ve missed a few Swiss copy-paste by the standards you used for other tech-trees.
Cause Panzerwagen 39 with the 24mm gun is as “copy-paste” as Magach 2.
I’d give more examples but I’m prepping a different topic, and my domestic-name knowledge of Swiss tanks is limited.
Cause by my 3D modeler definition of copy paste: Literally copying 1 3D model, and pasting it for a new tech tree.
I’ll likely come up with a similar or more amount of copy-paste spotted as you did, if I learned all the domestic names.
Cause I found 15 from the names I did know.

17

I do not consider the Magach and Sho’t or Tiran as unique. those are pretty close to many variants of the Regular M47, M48, M60, Centurion, and T-55

they strapped machine-gun all around and put their own 105mm which is pretty much the same as the M68 or L7 which both were also mounted on the original tanks by USA and UK. Israel just renamed them according to their way and did some small modifications,

only the Magach 7 and Gal Batash is different enough to be considered as unique for me

I also do not consider the Strv 121 or 122 as a unique vehicle. those are just Leopard 2 with a few local modifications for me.

if I were to consider those as unique, I would have to consider the Pz 57/60, Pz 51 and Pz 87 as unique as well.
which would reduce 4 C&P to add them on the Unique side for Switzerland

18

I already have Magach 1, Shot, and Tiran 4 in my copy-paste list.
The rest of the Magachs aren’t in WT in other tech trees yet [or ever in the case of later variants].
And Tiran 4S can only be Israel’s.
Later Shots are obviously only Israel’s.

Saying Tiran 4S is copy-paste is like saying all Leopard 2s are the same and copy-paste of one another.

19

not been in he tech tree do not make them less of a copy-paste.

here is some example of close-to-copy-paste
this bellow is an American M60 during Desert storm in 1991

This is and Magah 6

those feel a lot of the same to me. the change of the cupola and the arrangement of the ERA do not make it much different. and Israel has a dozen of them which are questionably needed. i think they could remove 4-5 of them without breaking the tech tree and add a more unique variant or continue with the Sabra as a natural successor. the Sabra feel unique enough to me

20

Me looking for where the topic went:

21

just debating and sharing our definition of what makes a copy-paste and what is a unique vehicle.

it’s starting to drift off but it is relevant to the Swiss tech tree in order to see if the tech tree is unique enough or would be just a mix of existing nation

The aviation would not be so impressive but they still have some interesting models.

and for the navy, they do have a costal aircraft carrier

Spoiler

it carries an aircraft, which makes me technically correct. the best kind of correct

1 Like