Alright thank you :) I’ll take it as proof they did have the 105mm then, for now anyway.
I’m sorry to hear about your friend. I would say something but I fear it might break the rules of avoiding politics, no matter how agreeable it is.
(I’ll also say, glad to see you back – I don’t think we interacted on the old forum before, but I love all your Swiss suggestions and your tree proposals. Certainly think it’s one of the top most realistic options for a new nation/tech tree)
it’s always appreciated. i was offline for about 18 months as i was traveling. but i am back and have no foreseen plan to travel again soon. so i catch up on the work.
I have a lot to do to transfer the suggestions from the old forum and update them with documents recently received.
with my work with the South African, having engaged myself with the Canadian too, working for the Israeli on the update of the previous project, and the French who are always very supportive, i kind of have my handful
for the Swiss, the difference is i work mostly if not exclusively alone. that makes it way slower to progress.
each of those tech trees i made took serial months of research, sometimes years. the fact i keep gathering information that flies my way helps a lot to progress randomly. but still i which i had a team with me like the Israeli, French, or Italian communities (just to name them). those guys are awesome
here is an example of misleading information this website has.
it claims the 105mm used HESH and APDS with a velocity of 600 m/sec for the APDS. this is what the British gun uses which makes sense. but this is not what the Swiss used
this document proves it
the gun used British APDS and American HEAT rounds. no HESH is mentioned. if they worked with the Swiss archive/government, they would know that. it suggests to me they are making up the blank information. that allows me to doubt every bit of information they provide. Therefore i consider this website unreliable. if it was only this one I would just consider it as a mistake, but I saw a lot of wrong information there. so I believe they just make up the blank knowing they are misleading. if at least they wouldn’t claim to have sources.
i was also misled on the ammunition used. i plan to correct it shortly to have the proper ammunition. that also means the Swiss Panzer 57 (centurion) was using HEAT and all the 105mm MBT guns did
yes, those are Panzer 58 during the trial in 1961 when they was checking the posibility to oder 150 Panzer 61. for this they wanted to show how the tank would perform in group operation. this is a late stage of the development. normally when they get there, the vehicle is pretty much ready for production. they are just trying to officialize the contract.
the four first panzer 58 at least was armed with the 84mm like the late trial of the KW 30/57. the Panzer 58 was also mounting for a very short time with a 90mm gun as show in this picture in the maintenance workshop for the Panzer 55 & 58
the 105mm was coming a bit later as the Panzer 61 at this point was mostly needed to improve the design operational safety, simpler Operation, better accessibility and maintenance and Possibility of repair as well as with regard to a more efficient production. the panzer 61 have a bit flatter turret who is also a bit longer over the Panzer 58. but beside this the external look are almost identical.
we can see the difference of the Panzer 61 turret rear on this picture
Panzer 61 above
Panzer 58 bellow
an important distingtion to make
the Panzer 58 was armed with the 8.4cm Pz.Kan 58 and not the 20-pounder like the Centurion which was called 8.4 cm Pz.Kan.55 in Switzerland
the Pz.Kan 58 have a slightly different velocity than the 20-pounder and appear to have slightly different rounds
An ammunition who is notably missing is the Pz-Ke-G which was already a thing at about the same time
this allows us to wonder if the Pz.Kan 58 and the Pak.55 share the same ammunition and they both have the same performance. as it is definitively 2 different guns. the final test indicates a 9.63 kg round with a velocity of 930 m/sec
the test went on with the Pak.55 and 9 cm.
So does this mean that Pz 58 has been equipped with 9cm Pz Kan 48, 8,4cm Pak 55, 8,4cm Pz Kan 58, and 10,5cm Pz Kan 60?
only the PzKan 58, Pz Kan 60 and Pz Kan 48
and i am believing each deserves a suggestion on their own as they are pretty different performance-wise
