Panzer 58


Here are some interesting pictures of M+8071!

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Well, there’s this, but I don’t have it yet… = )

Back at it again. The fact that it’s Swiss automatically means it’s going to Germany.
At least try to be nice about it…

I can easily say the 20mm coax is one of the few good things going for the AMX-30, it going to Germany would harm France YET AGAIN

I don’t quite get the AMX-30 reference, sorry.

And yes, I will always a) argue that Germany makes more sense to place a Swiss sub-tree, and have discussed this a lot already, but more importantly that b) any Tech tree is fine for me, as long as any Swiss vehicle at all end up in WT… ;-)

I don’t have to because other people already did.
This is just proof of ignorance that I need to send you this rather than you looking into things yourself, even in these very forums…

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20mm coaxial doesn’t ring any bells for the AMX-30? That’s one of the few things that is good about it.

The more I think about it, with how France keeps getting left behind, the Panzer 58 will basically kill what viability that the AMX-30 has. That’s just the situation it’s in.
Especially with you being a Game Master and likely having more weight to your opinion. Seeing more vehicles with French influence lost to Germany is getting harder to tolerate.

I only say that because of some French ties with Swiss vehicles. Stuff like the Shark FL-12 and FL-20, AMX-13 import, Piranha III with TML-105 turret, etc. I don’t think it’s enough to justify being a sub-tree over a normal tree, especially as they also imported British guns and vehicles, as well as German ones (and I am a strong proponent of a full Swiss/Alpine tree) but I’m only saying if Gaijin 100% won’t do a full tree, then I think a sub-tree for France works better than a sub-tree for Germany (it would also benefit the French tree more than it would the German one)

More than a Swiss tech tree, I think it would be more interesting to make a kind of tech tree of small European countries, so a tech tree could be made with as few prototype tanks as possible and more vehicles that were in production, putting countries like Switzerland, Austria, Poland, Belgium, Czechoslovakia and in its final years the Czech Republic and Slovakia, together they could make an interesting tech tree from the beginning to the end and with many of the vehicles being production models.

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The Pz 58 predated the AMX-30 program. The inspiration for the coax 20mm is much more likely to have come from the early Centurion development if they didn’t just think of it themselves. /nit

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If you wish to talk about lumping unrelated European militaries with wildly differing modern histories then you may text me in private if interested.
I have no interest in holding that conversation in public for the millionth time, yet I have plenty to say about this.

I was thinking about looking at the timeline of the two.
My statement still remains. Switzerland should be independent or a shared tech tree between Germany and France.

There is nothing to talk about, it doesn’t matter if they are countries with different modern histories, at the end of the day right now we have China and Taiwan together, which literally should be enemies, but they are together, at the end of the day gaijin is who chooses. I prefer that small countries come together to create a tech tree with production vehicles, while you prefer a Swiss tech tree with 70% of the vehicles being prototypes, and it seems very good to me that you want that, but that It’s your opinion, not mine, at the end of the day everyone gives their opinion on things whether we like it or not.
In any case, the one who ends up deciding what to do is gaijin, and it doesn’t matter if you want one thing and I want the other, they will choose what they want, so we just have to wait if they accept the Panzer 58 suggestion and see where they put it.

Even beyond histories and whatnot there are still gameplay and financial reasons as to why this is a terrible idea, but again, I’ll reserve that for private.

Honestly, I’m not interested in your theories. My opinion is mine and yours is yours, if gaijin thinks the same as you, he will do what you are saying.