and you can’t even fly in the battlefield before Gaijin tells you to return within range of it lmao
They probably can. If not just make it a ground radar station. Not like it’ll matter much.
Yeah, very common… when useing 11.3, 8 out of 10 is in 11.7…
No, just Germany (they need to “suffer” :D)… all others have Gripens. :)
The missile has almost no pull at high ranges the stated pull is at closer ranges
All it take is HARM or ALARM which Gaijin seem to really afraid to add (ofc we all know what gonna happen to little Pantsir if ARM in the game)
Even a late Shrike subvariant, with the improved motor (e.g. AGM-45B-9) would outrange the Pantsir.
The problem is with how they have modeled ordnance shootdown, and the fact that the Pantsir has Cannons and TWS.
Of all the spaa in the game, the pantsir will have the least amount of problems from the introduction of such missiles, while adats, flarak and ito will be the main victims. I don’t understand such desire for their introduction.
ADATS is so incredibly sad as an 11.7 “SAM”
It’s a bad tank destroyer and bad SPAA, with TD spawncost to boot.
ARM seekers require a strong radar signal that may not be provided by search-only radars such as those featured on ADATS.
They will works in a current simple band system with 99% chance. Have radar with band that missile can see = target.
Hey there, Active Pantsir player here, while the search radar is indeed K-Band the tracking radar isn’t meaning that far the missiles to go into active interception mode the tracking radar has to be active and locked on which would trigger RWR’s capable of detecting the pantsir’s tracking radar. Additionally it doesn’t need nerfing as of yet since there is clear counters against the Pantsir that “Intelligent” CAS users can do such as:
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Getting above the 83° search radar.
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Using bullpup guided bombs or Mavericks to outrange the pantsir’s 20km interception range.
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Not flying in a fucking straight line as most CAS players did Pre-Saclos nerf and before Sky Guardians.
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Over saturating it’s interception capabilities or by overwhelming it’s radar tracking by launching unguided rockets along with guided munitions.
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Engaging it with a tank it can’t pen since it can barely look down at ground level.
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Hitting the deck and speeding at Mach 1 only ever going above to launch TV guided munitions or laser guided bombs.
As much as Pantsir’s are scary CAS is by far stronger when you actually use those braincells of yours to actually play effectively rather than launching a no skill bomb and racking up multiple kills while sitting in the stratosphere.
Since Sky Guardians and the Saclos nerf the only really effective SAMs are the pantsir, VT-1 equipped SAMs, Strela, TOR-M1 and the otomatic.
Quit crying since everything that isn’t those has almost no chance in countering you when you’re sitting on the edge of space.
Kindly a console player
CLUBBING PC CAS BECAUSE THEY LOVE FLYING IN STRAIGHT LINES
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You do get that this is only really valid if both teams have Pantsirs right? If only one team does what is to stop them from having what is now basically guaranteed Air superiority and using that to their advantage to freely use CAS to start snowballing?
Doesn’t help that various Airframes are missing significant capability (and useful features) that can and would deal with them in short order, also the various abstractions that assist in targeting airframes and ordnance.
And that those that are sufficient either tend to be Russian or Multi-role fighters.
Here’s a Question, should only that which is meta have a chance to do anything?
Also the Pantsir being used as the yardstick to determine Threat capability for future additions does not bode well, for anyone at all since it only speeds the arms race and so will not lead to positive outcomes for anyone since ordnance can get much, much more deadly than it is. Since other tech trees don’t have close counterparts, it goes straight to SL-AMRAAMs and AIM-9X equivalents for tactical systems, or even a revision to CAP SP costs.
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- Getting above the 83° search radar.
Lol. Lmao even.
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Apologies for the late reply but allow me to answer both of them to the best I can.
For your first paragraph; Even if only one team has a Pantsir for example a realistic battle with USSR against US and Other allies, The Pantsir alone can’t control the skies it will however significantly impact enemy aircraft in their operations should they not play intelligently sure the Pantsir is the meanest beast Russia has in its arsenal but your forgetting it does come with its drawbacks,
For the 83° search radar angle you sacrifice update speed.
For insane range, it sacrifices concealment and mobility.
So have fun trying to hide from any fire and forget bombs it does however pose of the best chances at intercepting enemy munitions launched at it but even then the CAS player wins in that exchange, one less Pantsir missile out of its 12 for a single consumable bomb which you can pretty much replenish far easier then the Pantsir can since you’d be lucky to get within 400 meters of a friendly cap point to replenish your Ground to Airs; Once all of those are gone the Pantsir becomes relegated to a taller less manoeuvrable Gepard.
For you’re second paragraph; As much as many CAS players would like to believe the Pantsir is the yardstick to new additions it simply isn’t for as much I could care it’s just a glorified Flakradrak, sure the missiles are less manoeuvrable than VT-1s it makes up with its far superior radar and it’s built in functionality.
Previously before Sky Guardians: Most SAMs such as the ADATS, Roland 1, FlakRakpz1 ASRAD and other similar SACLOS SAMs they all held a very strong position in the arms race against CAS and their guided bomb spam, they all punished the CAS players who thought they were untouchable. I use to be able to get anywhere between 6-10 kills per game with the FlakRakpz1 alone in my team against SU-25s MIG-23s, A-10 kiddies, rarely mirages or Kfir’s but the largest effective they had was nullifying helicopter ATGM spam, especially regarding the KA-50 and it’s Vikhrs which almost always dominated Ground RB and was mainly the reason Salcos got as bricked as it did.
Anyone can use a Pantsir sure they’ll see some success, but it takes practice, patience and sheer will in order to become good enough using it to become the Russian equivalent of an iron dome being able to multitask the locks, intercept incoming ATGMs or TV guided bombs using both the missiles and guns while keeping awareness of the ever changing battlefield constantly relocating in a timely manner since it’s mobility hinders any late decisions to move when you have revenge killers speed running to your location in their shiniest MBTs to serve some “justice” since you denied them their bombing runs.
I believe the closest thing you can get to jamming a Pantsir’s radar is either lobbing hundreds of unguided rockets to oversaturate the user with radar pings with a mixture of flares and chaff, but don’t expect flares to do much against SACLOS missiles which is why if you know your going to face a Pantsir, prioritise Chaff to at least give you a higher chance to lose the radar lock it has on you, without it players like me who use the Pantsir will have to fall back onto the manual tracking which removes the automated intercept mode of the missile giving the CAS player a far higher chance to slip away with at least a intact plane rather than a burning husk.
You only need to get a small number of positive returns to know something is out there as there is currently no ability to jam, or otherwise induce false contacts outside of chaff, which are dropped from aircraft in the first place.
Just because the polling rate goes down doesn’t mean the radar magically becomes useless.
You touched on the solution the the problem in your statement, The Pantsir doesn’tneed to expend missiles against ordnance, it can just as easily shoot them down with the cannons (due to the use of proportional navigation they will remain in the same apparent location in space for their entire flight to the target), which is an option that a number of other SAMs lack, or are otherwise much worse at due to either relative gun positioning, a comparative lack of Rate of fire, or Magazine depth.
So you would agree that Russia should have received a Tor-M1 instead? as it surely would have made no difference to its relative performance and was already present in the game files, so why would the dev’s go the the additional lengths of modeling everything needed to add an entirely novel system to the game?
In no way is the existing ordnance selection remotely close to the most effective or the last word in terms of SEAD / DEAD; Anti-Radiation Missiles, Cluster bombs, GPS/INS, and Remote control & Stand-off ordnance are still completely missing among other potential options.
So basically you need to somehow get directly above the Pantsir. This provide 0 protection to an aircraft that has literally just spawned in
This makes no sense. Because they will enter 20km as they approach the pantsir and PGMs and AGM-65s cannot be used passed about 13km due to game limitations.
Pulling ultra high G maneuvers seems to provide minimal protection. I’ve been shot down by a pantsir at a range of 10-15km whilst in a gripen dogfighting. So pulling constant 9-12G turns.
The moment i spawn in the Tornado Gr1, I begin pulling as a High-G turn as I can and actively defending against an incoming threat. but between the nerfed FM on the Tornado and low performance at alt. This is a minimal amount of G and Pantsirs always hit.
Tornados do not have any form of rocket.
So you want me to sneak around the entire map in a Challenger 2, evading the entire enemy team, just to take out a Pantsir?
Harrier Gr7 cannot do Mach 1. So this will provide minimal protection. Tornado Gr1 can do this, but PGMs are glide bombs, so flying low would prevent their use almost entirely. the Gen 1 TPOD nature of Gr1, makes locating targets rapidly harder than it should be and doesnt provide guranteed protection. You also still need to keep the target in your sight to lase the target. The entire time, you are vulnerable to attack
Kindly an experienced PC player
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I would have to agree to some degree that there probably wouldn’t be as much controversy should Russia had not have gotten the Pantsir YET and instead have gotten the Tor-M1 which for some reason China has instead of their own domestic systems such as the Sky Dragon 12 which is their latest innovation in SAM systems i by the looks of it I believe.
From the X-ray view aswell as the modifications
Comparison between the TOR-M1 and the Pantsir-S1
Radar & Tracking Bands:
TOR M1: Radar: F, Tracking: J
Pantsir S1: Radar: F, Tracking K
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Radar Ranges & Maximum Angles
TOR-M1: 30km & 64°
Pantsir S1: 50km & 83°
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Missile maximum engagement range:
TOR-M1s 9M331: 12km
Pantsir-S1s 95Ya6: 18km (guaranteed) 20km Launch range
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Missile G Tolerances
9M331: 42Gs
95Ya6: 32Gs
Significant differences to note:
-The Tor-m1 maintains a decent mobility advantage and is easier to conceal due to their size differences.
-The Pantsir has a better array of defensive armaments to relay on should the user have to switch to guns when missiles aren’t applicable or available in certain situations while the TOR can only rely on its missiles and teammates with no option once those are expended.
-While both systems use the same Search radar bands the Pantsir has a better advantage at scoring hits since it doesn’t trigger RWRs that don’t detect K band wavelengths.
-Both systems have the capability to engage multiple targets at once but TOR can only handle half as many simultaneous engagement orders at once (2 Vs 4)
Would the replacement of the Pantsir with a Russian Tor system make a difference in anyway?
Somewhat yes, without K band tracking CAS will have a higher awareness when they have RWR alerting them to a radar band that they can detect at the cost of going against missiles that can turn 10Gs more then the current Pantsir missiles, Detection wise you’ll still be seen as you spawn but will be safe for, being engaged up until the 12km range which is when you get into duels with CAS bullpups as previous mentioned overall the skies would be some what safer to engage in but you’d still be at risk of being sniped by a 42G missile if your not constantly changing direction occasionally.
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I wouldn’t call Pantsir’s dying “least of problems” for SPAA that’s already chronically underpowered compared to the 20+km CAS fragging them.
Famous 20+km gbu drop? Didn’t know the games last 40min+ so that would be usefull.
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