Panavia Tornado (UK versions) - Technical data and discussion

[DevilO6]

Yes they did, but it was gen 2+

[Serkay64]

Isnt 1080x720 considered Gen3?

[DevilO6]

Gen 2+, it is wrong here should be 1080/720, was changed last month

[SuTa_basuto]

any information about the BK27?

and sweden BK27 got PELE-T

[Gunjob]

Got plenty of info on the BK27, but as far as I can tell we didn’t use the PELE-T, and in game the PELE-T functions exactly like APHE anyway.

[DevilO6]

I hate that the first bullet in the belt, that is usually a simple ball to blow the seal and clear the barrel, repeats itself in game, due to how belts are made

[warhead_beast]

With the new stuff, the F.3 is quite okay if you are not facing top tier, but the FGR 2 must go down it has no buissness fighting J-11/Su-27/Mig29/F-15

[WaretaGarasu]

As an F3 lover, i agree.

[Gunjob]

Based and F.3 pilled.

[kieranfinn27]

7 kills with F.3

[Fireball_2020]

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/n7UAgLqC7rDL
would be a nice little buff

[SlowHandClap]

@DevilO6

I hate that the first bullet in the belt, that is usually a simple ball to blow the seal and clear the barrel, repeats itself in game, due to how belts are made

Is that honestly how it works?
God they are worse than I thought lol

[SlowHandClap]

@Killer_Hobbit

From latest patch notes:

• F-16 (all variants), MiG-29 (all variants) Yak-141 (all variants), Harrier AV-8C, J-8F, JH-7A, Mirage 2000-5F, Saab JA37 (all variants) — in all-aspect pulse-doppler track mode (MPRF waveform) abeam targets can be tracked in look-up cases. In head-on aspect pulse-doppler track mode (HPRF waveform) abeam and tail-on targets tracking depends on signal return — to — ground clutter ratio. This means that abeam targets can be tracked in look-up cases and tail-on targets track range strongly depends on fighter altitude: higher — larger.

I’m not quite sure if the above comments on HPRF applies to other aircraft as well. Regardless, the HPRF FMICW waveform of the Foxhunter radar in TWS & PD-Angle-Lock (target tracking) modes should also be capable of tracking a notching (abeam) or stern-chase (tail-on) target in the absence of ground-clutter / chaff. There has previously been some discussion about whether Foxhunter has a permanent notch/stern-chase filter. Technical documentation refers to an automatically adjusting filter based on clutter return (so no permanent filter), but there IS a control for the notch filter in the cockpit. The limits of the control are seemingly still unknown (in a classified document), but I highly suspect it could be disabled entirely.

I have no idea how we’d start making a bug-report on that without diving into the subjects of radar frequency spectrums, sidelobes & transmit/receive leakage (all tiny on Foxhunter), doppler filters, Kalman Filters and frequency triplet identification. I just don’t have the time to write a short paper on the subject which would only be backed up by tenuous references for Foxhunter.

Link to last time I ranted about this, leading to a discussion with @Flame2512, and with our supporting documents: Panavia Tornado (UK versions) - Technical data and discussion - Page 202 - Great Britain - War Thunder - Official Forum

@Gunjob Sorry to @ you, but do you have info regarding this?

[Gunjob]

Right now the Fox Hunter can track Abeam targets in look-up, as it the MBC filter is disabled for look-up. In look-down its a bit trickier as it has clutter to filter out. It looks like this change is mainly targeted at multimode radars to somewhat match the performance of radars like the Fox Hunter.

I’ve not had a chance to really test the changes to HPRF on those radars but previously they were all hopeless at anything other than head on, I suspect they maybe alot closer to the Fox Hunter in their HPRF modes now.

[SlowHandClap]

@Gunjob

Right now the Fox Hunter can track Abeam targets in look-up, as it the MBC filter is disabled for look-up.

Oh ok, so currently the foxhunter in PD HDN mode will still be able to lock abeam targets that are above them with no background clutter? Does it work this way for all PD HDN radars now? I was sure the last time I flew in the F.3 I had to switch manually to ACM mode to lock a target above the horizon flying perpendicular to me, because PD wouldn’t track. But I haven’t flown the F.3 in a very long time.

[Gunjob]

@SlowHandClap

Oh ok, so currently the foxhunter in PD HDN mode will still be able to lock abeam targets that are above them with no background clutter?

Yes

@SlowHandClap

Does it work this way for all PD HDN radars now?

Unsure, I’d need to test them all.

@SlowHandClap

I was sure the last time I flew in the F.3 I had to switch manually to ACM mode to lock a target above the horizon flying perpendicular to me, because PD wouldn’t track. But I haven’t flown the F.3 in a very long time.

Its not perfect, just like in MPRF radars there is still a sweet spot where aircraft is in a notch and cannot be tracked. It largely fixes the issue where the target is say 10-30 degrees off a notch it should still be tracked (in look-up). Where as before (in the W-List days) I’m sure you remember how quickly a target would be lost when they ever so slightly turned away from a head on, that’s still how most HPRF radars work in game.

[SlowHandClap]

Thanks. Is there any upgrade to the foxhunter radar that would make it what the game designates “all-aspect” look down PD?

[Gunjob]

Not that I’ve read. In fact it was very nearly replaced with the Blue Vixen (fully multimode) from the FA.2, but they pressed ahead with fixing the thing.

[Morvran]

F3 with Blue Vixen would have been an incredible aircraft.

[DevilO6]

So now you can go and curse the MoD for doing illogical thing, again.