I quite enjoy these monthly events and know several other people who do too. Doesn’t bother me in the least some countries are excluded. In the end… They were the losers. That’s how winning works.
It’s funny how many people complaining about “woke” things are always the same people who say “aren’t we all worthy of respect, shouldn’t we all get a prize?” whenever the tables get turned a little. Nah. They lost the war, bro. If Gaijin only wants the war winners in this series, it’s their game and their rules, and they should make the game they want to make regardless of the fee-fees of any woke wehraboos out there. Lots of heroes on the winning side left to commemorate first.
Nothing wrong with playing all countries… I do too, would be silly not to in a war game, but if Gaijin wants this feature to be their commemoration of the heroes on the winning side only, hey, works for me.
Also I really appreciate an actual dev coming here and defending their position for once. We should all respect that, that’s real community engagement. Very impressive, @KasaneDevAcc . o7
Edit: and people wanted to try to hide this post by community flags. So now I guess we get to see if Gaijin submits to the mob and allows posts defending them to be blocked. Over to you mods.
No. They really don’t. Because all the feeble arguments being made here are exactly, EXACTLY the same as those made by people who think there should be (as an example) black dwarf women in Lord of the Rings (which I don’t really have a problem with, if that’s what the creators want, either). “My feelings are hurt because I don’t see the people in your art that I identify with.” They’re just being made here by those usually on a different political side.
And yes, when the same dev said the same thing last year on the old forum I congratulated him for talking to the community directly then, too. So many many other things in this game we have to hear through half-informed intermediaries what the company line is, so whenever a real dev takes to these pages it is always refreshing. For them to say in their second language that they’re really really tired of an old argument (“I think… comments should be closed”) when the comments haven’t actually been closed and we’re still allowed to discuss it IS actual engagement. If and when they do close these threads then you’ll have a point.
You say “defending implies more than repeating.” But that’s ALL the other side is doing TOO! The same whining every month when they’ve been clearly told no multiple times. What was this stunning new counterargument in this thread this dev needed to respond to?
What you call an “inconsistency”, in any other context would be called an “artistic choice.” Me, personally, I prefer a simpler rule. If you lose the war, you don’t get the statue in the park. Simple. But that’s my rule, and I’m not the one demanding the devs follow it, because I think the principle of defending people making the games they want to make is even more important. And yes, if they take a different tack in the future and defend it then, I might not like it as much… we’ll see.
Anyway, I was responding to one person, who said this event is hated by everyone, which is a false statement that could be not really left unchallenged, and also that it shows that Gaijin was full of “wokeness”, when he’s the one demanding inclusion in art overriding the creators’ wishes, which is what ALL the “woke controversies” in gaming since OG Gamergate have been all about. The hypocrisy was just too glaring to let pass.
(And by the way, your attacking an entire country for one politician’s stupid moment in 2023*, that I have in no way been involved with or defended, or has anything to do with this thread other than it’s my country, appearing to claim you feel that moment somehow totally reverses the sacrifice of 45,000 Canadians killed fighting fascism in World War Two, and as a result we shouldn’t feel winner’s pride anymore at their role in defeating Naziism now, is in its own way morally relativistic left-wing nonsense, too. But that’s horseshoe theory for you.)
*What I would say is the story of Ukrainians fleeing Soviet Russia after WW2 for Canada is complex, and doesn’t lend itself to cheap gotcha moral binaries, especially given the current war there and the side Canada has taken on that. Your calling a guy whose war ended when he was a rank private in the German military at age 20 and hasn’t ever been accused of anything specific an “actual Nazi war criminal” is overstating the known facts of the situation quite a bit. But no, I don’t think any Ukrainians fighting with the Nazis in WW2 should get any War Thunder profile pics (or ovations) either. Same reason: they lost.
Appreciate your reply in general - and i like the “Statue in the Park” analogy.
Imho we have just different opinions about “wokism”. And using the same right as you by “challenging” deviating opinions - i used the opportunity to reflect my understanding of “woke” with regards to your imho general critism of the demands of the fellow players above.
Same as with wehraboos which i see rather right from the center and woke followers at the far left - that simply does not fit together, but i agree to disagree.
Regarding new claims vs repeating old answers:
I mean my post was hidden, so you might had not the chance to read my reply citing a source that the conquest of Koenigsberg (our “Hero of the Month” participated) resulted in ~ 100k civilian deaths after the war, so i have some sympathy for players with personal ties to this “event” to see it rather disturbing that gaijin thinks everything is fine with this “event”.
Regarding USSR and Canada:
If we have common understanding that every war is a waste of lives i am not sure why you mentioned the 45k casualties of Canada in WW2.
Imho it makes no sense to talk about “winners pride” - if one country lost between 14 and 20% like the USSR and another country 0.3-0.4 % of it’s total population - there is only one nation which can have something like “winners pride”.
Imho Hunka - as a volunteer to the SS with 18 - qualifies to be named as war criminal as the SS itself is classified as such an organization.
I am actually sorry for using the Hunka incident in this case without further outlining why - it was not aimed to attack Canada or their citizens as a whole - just to show the actual circumstances and view on things by ruling classes which on one hand embrace wokism and enforce this ideology on their people - but is on the other hand unable to tell their people that they support a country which has no problem with their history & legacy which includes nazism.
And exactly this ruling class determines if you go to war or not. So as i am aware of that you are an active service member - i hope that you will not dragged into any insane adventure in which, depending on rank, you either have to give or to execute orders to fulfil your assigned tasks.
Alright then, let’s tell the French that they shouldn’t have memorials for Vercingetorix and let’s remove any memory of Hannibal Barca. After all, they lost, so all we need is statues of Caesar and Scipio.
As for the woke analogy with the Lord of the Rings: the makers of Rings of Power deviate take artistic liberty by adding what was not specifically described by the creator of that specific fantasy universe.
The “lore” that War Thunder is based on, is history. There is a slight difference between tweaking a fictional world to come more in line with western societies and straight up refusing to show positive traits of historical figures based on politics.
I have not been flagged in this thread. The posts that were flagged were benign. Nothing crazy or crude. The first one to get flagged just highlighted a disconnect between the community and Gaijin.
Agreed - the only reason they got flagged was because a certain person thinks he can play forum Gestapo. Just pathetic - especially as this coward is unable to express and defend his own view on things.
Fun fact:
The Fw 190 D-13 in game even has the serial number and camo for the plane flown by Major Franz Götz (63 aerial victories).
Why can we not even have those planes with their proper markings (no not the swastika) and descriptions?
There are so many allied “ace” planes
Dude - are you aware of that you try to fulfil a role here nobody asked you to do? If gaijin has a problem with certain contents - it is their job to enforce rules, and not yours.
I mean you play between 3-5 matches a week - so i would claim that your passion level for wt is way below the average guy active here in the forum.
Imho you might think about aligning the number of your posts with your in-game activity and try to stop playing forum police - flagging of stuff and claiming “against the rules” is just annoying as hell.
Have in mind that a forum is meant to discuss topics within a group of common interests and mainly to help and support others. Your activity in this thread proves that you neither contribute to a discussion, nor that you are willing to help or support…
It seems this thread serves as living proof that the migration of the forum did not come without sacrifices. The old forum and rules weren´t without flaws either but what good is a forum that aspires to improve on discussions with emphasis on behaving civil and agreeable when theres also direct encouragement to just flag anything you see without consequence?
It´s an invitation to abuse which may lead a forum that lives from a discussion culture into absurdity as what kind of discussions can develop when a few salty people, unable to take a different view on things, are already enough to permanently hide posts from sight?
An enormeous part of this thread is still permanently hidden after what appears a flagging-crusade of a minority and unfortunately it doesnt appear like any moderator has taken action yet even after such a long time. What purpose does a forum hold if I´m unable to disagree with others and threads can be stopped dead in their tracks?
I don´t have an issue with moderation but with the abuse of the flagging system.
In this thread an enormeous amount of posts got repeatedly flagged and are still hidden because what seems like a few people merely didnt liked when their own opinion gets challenged by someone with a different view on things. Any accusation of them “breaking the rules” appears like a pretextual argument as we already settled that many posts didn´t break any rules but were flagged anyway. Like the first reply which took a jab at a lack of communication between the community managers and you claimed to have flagged it for being “political”.
Possibly its even just one person with multiple accounts as otherwise I cannot explain how a post that got updated gets immediately hidden through flaggin again after a mere hour. Which only shows how easy this system can be abused.
To be fair I had my issues with how even constructive critique was handled already in the old forums. After the review bombing, when Gaijin promised to improve on things I had hope it would also include their concept of forum moderation one day which certainly has room for improvement. Claiming that the flag system can´t be abused is basically an out of season april fools joke.