In order to reflect history in the most realistic way possible, I think it is right to classify it as a heavy tank so that the Italians also have a heavy tank, give it a BR of 3.0 and not exceed this BR, and remove its artillery.
This would help:
What do you think? Do you agree with making this change so that Italy also has a heavy tank?
…and the TAM is considered to be a medium tank in Argentine nomenclature, but that doesn’t mean it has specifications that fit the medium tank class within WT.
So, for TAM as well as the Pesante 40 (and there may be other examples, but can’t think of any atm…), I am against a class change on the basis of local nomenclature…
It’s the same as M26 being a heavy or a medium.
In the end it doesn’t really matter but I think most would argue that the P40 and M26 fit into the medium tank category much better when they were put into action.
And the Italian designation is also dubious, as this was more about the weight of the vehicle and the P40 was much heavier than previous Italian medium tanks.
By the same standard the Valentines were light tanks according to the Soviets.
But it would be just a nerf to the tank itself, no arty and increased sp cost
But why? It was literally built by Italians; it should be classified according to local nomenclature.
Also, what nomenclature does the game use? Is it a fictitious nomenclature created by the rules invented by Gaijin, or is there a universal one used worldwide?
Well, the differences between different countries nomenclatures are completely arbitrary.
In WT however a system is needed where vehicles of similar capabilities are classed together, and a P40 is just not comparable in this regard with say a Churchill or a KV-1!
And as others mentioned, making the “Pesante” actually a heavy would take away its perks like artillery and lower Spawn points.
War Thunder has never used such a system and it worsens over time. Expect Bat.Chat. 25t to become light tank one day
M18 being a light tank (that one should be reverted IMO)
For reasons of history and to bring the game as close to realism as possible (I know this is just a game and will never be close to real life, but despite it being a simulation, I think we can all agree that players want a correct classification of tanks according to the local nomenclature… This can only lead to a gain in gaming experience that the player perceives while playing this game). So in addition to being a game, it also teaches you a bit of history, after all, War Thunder created his own wiki to inform the player of the pieces of history that humanity has created over time.
I mean, I would love Gaijin giving vehicles different classifications based on the nations. It would mix up their playstyles slightly.
The British could have the Valentines being heavy tanks, with the Valentine Mk I going back to its old 2.3 BR. While the USSR could have Valentines going up 0.3 but become light tanks with scouting and artillery (British ones becoming heavy tanks lose artillery).
so is the valentine. yet it gets counted as a medium
Tam is a light tank in game despite being a budget MBT
Gaijin is stupid sometimes
It wouldn’t, because these tasks are mostly from rank III and higher.
Only vehicles left for this purpose outside of already implemented, but premium Tigris are Hungarian operated IS-2 tanks (maybe also 44M TAS, but it will never come most likely, let alone in the regular tree).
should move to 3.0/2.7 and get heavy tank designation
I mean, a lot of vehicles in-game weren’t even classified along those lines, for the better.
Cruiser tanks can be either lights or mediums. Infantry tanks can be either mediums or heavies. Automitrailleuse de combat (AMC, or cavalry tanks) can either be lights or mediums.
Armored cars were usually designated something different in national classifications, and sometimes had subdivisions. German Reich armored cars were separated into light, medium, and heavy categories; currently only the first and second are represented in-game and both are represented as light tanks. The Soviets had a similar system, though the BA-11 is currently the only Soviet armored car in-game from this era as their most advanced heavy armored car. The French had various designations, the earlier ones such as AMD and AMC could also apply to tracked vehicles and vice versa.
There’s a bunch of random support vehicle classifications, such as airborne artillery (ASU-57/85 and 2S25). There’s a bunch of APCs in-game which are designated as SPAAs.
Of course representing them all in-game with their true classifications would be bad for gameplay purposes and balance. The sheer number of them, the variations between different countries and how they classify vehicles, and the reclassification of some vehicles (i.e. M26 going from a heavy to a medium tank, I-Go going from a light to a medium tank) makes it utterly impractical.
You can’t do that in War Thunder.
In this game, tanks don’t operate in the contexts they did historically. They don’t fight in an environment where they’re engaging soft targets most of the time. They’re not performing a doctrinally assigned role as part of a wider organised unit. They’re not even fighting historical armoured opposition.
As if that weren’t enough, plenty of soft factors (visibility, reload speed, reliability, mobility on rugged terrain) are equalised in WT.
This is a shooter game that uses tanks instead of infantry. If you choose it as a correct historical representation of a given tank as a physical object, it’s hard to do better. If you choose it as a correct historical representation of the employment of tanks, you have made a terrible choice. And a tank class is a direct product of its intended employment.
Btw, as others have pointed out, standards are incredibly inconsistent across nations and decades. Britain had cruiser tanks and infantry tanks, and later universal tanks.
While the Germans had regular and heavy Panzerjaeger detachments, the Soviets never differentiated between tank destroyers and SPGs - every crew of an SPG had to train to perform indirect fire and infantry support missions, but were also instructed that if tanks appeared on the battlefield their first job was to destroy the tanks.
Italian nomenclature is just that, nomenclature. It was an administrative holdover from the mid 1930s. Bureaucracy. No one in their right minds dreamed of using the P40 as a breakthrough vehicle.
Even when things are relatively uncontroversial, “history” often complicates the picture. The Tiger I and the Tiger II are heavy tanks. So… are they breakthrough tanks in the classic sense? Well, the first Tiger especially relative to its time of introduction arguably has some genuine breakthrough traits, but these vehicles arrived when Germany was already on the defensive and they were mostly used as ambushers or, really, to shore up the firepower of Germany’s depleted infantry. And in game, they certainly both play very differently than a Jumbo… so what do we call them?
Is the Panther a heavy or a medium? The Soviets considered it a turreted TD… it certainly doesn’t look like the type of machine that excels at exploitation missions. The M26 has already been brought up too.
For the purposes of the game, the classification they have makes sense. It’s fine. The only tank I genuinely don’t understand the classification of in-game is the Caernarvorn.
Very well put together! = )
Or the poor old Matilda… in SB it fights the PzIVH that is not only similar weight but can penetrate it frontally at all ranges with OPHE. I know Gaijin hates Britain but this is just straight up unfair.
Reality is unfair. I‘m sure there are also plenty of vehicles that will find fighting the Matilda unfair.
The issue is that the Matilda only gets two spawns in SB as it’s classified as a “heavy tank”. Despite the fact that it’s armoured similarly to a PzIVH which is designated as a medium despite the fact it’s actually heavier than the poor Matilda.
Then you have the sheer difference in firepower with the Panzer turning the poor old girl to Swiss cheese whilst the Matilda can barely penetrate the PzIV.
If the P40 can be medium tank due to statistics etc then why not the Matilda? Even the P40 is heavier than the poor Matilda is. Considering that sadly the game doesn’t go by history/timelines etc then there’s no reason for the Matilda to be classified as a heavy tank.
The Matilda is more armored than either of them. It’s a box with 70-75 mm of armor on the front and sides and a volumetric trolly double/triple-layer of side armor.
Besides. There’s a reason why the Matilda II is at 2.7 and the vehicles you mentioned are at 3.0 and 3.7.