While i admire and agree on that, so there should not be “jumps”, if we look at the problem closely, we`ll see the overtiered AMX-13 FL11 which can and should just be lowered to 3.7 to fit the lineup with the ARL. And then there is ONLY ONE french tank at 5.0, and two at 5.3.
So instead of copypasting the way from 3.7 to 5.3, i believe we just need to make AMX-13 balanced back to 3,7 and keep the lineup running. The gap is surely huge, but at least its entirely french.
the problem is that, at each battle rating changes, we try to get the AMX-13 FL11 back at 3.7 but it never comes to anything surely because of “statistics based changes”. So if we can’t make it go down in BR, I believe we someday will need something else to replace it :/
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As far as i know, the only EMBT we know works and fired is the leo hull with leclerc turret on it, so things that we already have in game, it would be still inferior to leo 2a7.
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The leopard chassis is assymetric torsion bar, the Leclerc is hydropneumatic. Therefore the Leclerc chassis is better, and the leopard chassis goes in the bin. We already have leopards for the people that need them.
To have the top tank of the tree be a tech-demo/proof of concept is bad enough that it doesn’t need to be made half out of foreign part.
These differences doesnt even mean anything in game while in real life Leopard chassis proved to be superior to Leclerc in terms of armor protection and survivability.
So in this case Leclerc’s chassis is going to bin.
EuroMBT has nothing to do with Leopards except sharing same hull.
According to you, who?
Because many people actually like the EURO MBT and wants see in both German and French tech tree.
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Was never the case. It had the M4 sherman and the M10 from the very start of the tree being introduced
They just have to move the dca down to like 8.0, i kinda feel like its radar lets it down for spaa, then add the leclerc marksman at 8.7 similar to itpsv, obviously would be toxic and farm nukes like all 35mm but with no apds on dca anymore it just feels empty to play
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agree
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The difference is that France is the second biggest M24 user (after the US) and deserve more to have M24 than most other nation in game - or it would easily be fixed by moving down the AMX-13 FL11 back to 3.7 but it doesnt seem to be happening anytime soon. The premium AMX-13-M24 doesn’t count, since it’s a premium.
For 10.7 nobody asked for a Leopard (and for that subtree) but other Leclerc prototype variant exist that could be added at 10.7,it’s not the same type of copy paste.
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For rank I? No, Gaijin just hasn’t added more tanks there.
The B2 could easily slot between the D2 and the B2 bis. There’s a number of 20 mm gun trucks that could slot between the P.7.T and the CCKW-353. The ACL 75 G-R and the ARL V 39 could slot between the SAu 40 and the M10, with additions like the Laffly S20TL CC to supplement the lackluster AMR 35 ZT 3. The S40 could slot between the S35 and the M3A3. The AM 35 B, the AM 39, and the AM 40 P could all easily slot between the AMC 35 and the AMD 35 Pak.
Dont make France second USA.
3.0-5.0 is going to unavoidably be a second USA, and that isn’t an issue considering that France and the USA can’t face each other in sim. Giving then an M24, of which they were the second largest user of, wouldn’t break anything and they don’t really have anything else that could fill the gap between the Crusader Mk. II and the AMX 13 FL 11.
They should be given more American vehicles there to make the 3.7-4.0 lineups more workable. They can still get the M4A2(75) and M4A3(75)W, which would supplement their currently lackluster 4.0 lineup. They can still get the M4A4T. They can still get the MDAP-upgraded M4A1(76), which would give people a second medium tank to play with for their 5.0 lineup instead of having to buy the M4A1 FL 10.
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Thank you for addressing this. It’s quite irritating to see people unaware that France did try to make more than just 2-man light tanks. We could take things a step further too with more niche prototypes and lesser known one-offs.
G1 P could go to ~2.3 between the S.40 and M4A1. It would have used the existing APX.4 turret from the B1 Bis, so there isn’t much to extrapolate about the design here when modeling it. It would give France something analogous to the Lee.
G1 P
B1 Ter ARL Pre-Production could go after the B1 Bis at 2.7. The new turret design would give it better armor than the current premium B1 Ter prototype, and enable greater rate of fire thanks to the increased room and 7-round ready rack.
Voisin CA 11 could be a great light tank at 3.0-3.3. It’s not the fastest, but it has a very good p/w, and should have roughly similar firepower to the SAu 40.
Also of note is that the G1 R was actually partially built, which makes it technically allowed in-game, but we lack the most up to date drawings at the moment that would be needed to model it. The wooden mock-up photos floating around are much earlier iterations that don’t represent the final design since many features were reworked.
If more information is found on it such that it can be modeled, I would expect it to slot in at 3.3~3.7 after the G1 P. It would have great all-round armor, decent mobility, fast fire-rate thanks to the automatic breech, and a rangefinder to boot, but the low armor penetration would hold it back.
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There are also some Belgian and Dutch vehicles that could be added, though none of them would be able to really fill the gaps. The Belgian AMC 35 and their T.13, and Carden-Lloyd 47 mm & 76 mm FRC conversions, would all likely sit at 1.0-1.7 since they’re barely better than what’s already there. The limited Dutch prewar armor has an even worse problem in being entirely armored cars, namely the Pantserwagens M36 (imported L-181), M38 (imported L-180), and M39 with the 37 mm Bofors, though they would probably be better than the AMD 35 but I can’t imagine them filling a gap that the AM 35 B and AM 40 P can’t, or the AMD 35 CDM conversions I forgot to mention earlier.
Never heard about the CA 11, looks like a lot of fun though! If I can get some good info I might write a suggestion for it!
Definitely would be a welcome addition to the lower ranks of France
Without even touching on the relevancy of IRL tank powerscaling, how exactly is that supposed to make me think the leopard chassis is any less disgusting to look at ?
Within the scope of WT, as long as you cross the threshold of basic useability, cool looking tanks are what matters to me.
Maybe instead of following your Pavlovian reflex as soon as you perceive negativity toward your beloved, see what people are actually talking about, and wether or not you care about my tastes in tank design ?
Just because you have bad taste when it comes to judging tanks design doesnt mean they are inferior or ugly.
Because the conversation wasn’t about taste on tanks but rather efficiency which armored leopard hull armor already proved its superior to Leclerc chassis in almost every way.
Btw my most played tank and vehicle is Leclerc S2 which I’m pretty sure it makes me lover of French tanks in the first place, also unlike you I don’t despise Leopards and their design because I can appreciate more than one tank design while knowing which one is better and which one is not.
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I wouldn’t be opposed to Belgian tanks at all, though they are better for expanding the higher ranks.
I’m less enthusiastic about the Dutch in the French tree, but ig Gajin’s already committed to the BeNeLux sub-tree at this point, so might as well embrace it.
I have a very WIP suggestion draft for the 47 mm armed AMD.35 CDM, as well as the pre-production B1 Ter. I’m very inefficient when it comes to these kinds of things,
Both versions of the CDMs would be nice to have, though the 25-mm one would basically just be a worse Panhard due to the tall turret. Having the progression of AMD 35 (Reserve) → AMD 35 CDM 47 (1.7) → AM 35 B (1.7 or 2.0) → AM 40 P (2.3 or 2.7) would be the best imo. The AM 39 could also be foldered with one of them, though I wouldn’t be hurt seeing that made a premium either since it would basically just be a sidegrade to the AMD 35 and, iirc, was already planning to be supplanted by the AM 40 P even prior to the production order being made for them. Then the Dutch Pantserwagens could be stuffed between the AMD 35 and the CDM, if the AMC 35 is moved to before or after the S35.
There’s enough weird or slightly modified armored cars that I hope they wouldn’t opt to make any of those FOMO by making them premiums or, worse, battlepass (EBRs make me sadge). The AMD 35 AFN and Coloniale, the AMD 35 CDM 25, or the DP2, are a lot more suited for those.
Thats one of the biggest problems of WT for sure. Crazy how devs dont see it themselves.
And as much as i agree that is the problem, i also as much dont want to see clones. So i believe we better opprose such changes and criticize gaijin to the point they will listen, but not agree to get low quality copypaste content because they dont want to listen
The one advantage of getting something like the M24 (outside of it being a historically significant part of the french armed forces) is that it is used by another major nation and is as such safe from uptiers.
We know that gaijin listens to the most interacted posts on those br change threads, and we as french community are usually simply not big enough for gaijin to listen to us, major nations however, are. Now obviously I don’t want to share every vehicle, but something filling a critical gap could be useful in this way.
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Well i see where you`re going from but i just disagre with it. Surely its great for the luneups, thats no doubt. It also has historical reasoning behind it. But its an unmodified US vehicle, and its not even a trophy. So i just dont like the idea of it making part of another tree. I dont even like it being in japan and sweden.