Outlining the needs of the French tree: "Alpha strike" edition

Hello everyone, I’ve made one of these posts before, which seemed to have gone down pretty well. Since the last patch was less than ideal for the French ground tree’s further development, I decided it was time for some follow-up.

In this post I intend to go over the current flaws in the French ground tree and suggest vehicles or other changes that might be able to resolve these issues. To most of you I assume that what I’m gonna say is gonna be quite logical and known knowledge. However, Gaijin appears to have no idea about the issues or a plan to resolve them. Hence why I thought a public post could help to increase visibility.
If needed, I will continue to make posts like this after a patch release to outline further needs for the tree and desires from the playerbase.

I must say that the additions for the SPAA tree have been great and much appreciated. The latest AMX VTT DCA is another great addition that removes a glaring hole in the SPAA line. However, call me greedy, but it is not enough.

Now, let’s get into it:

Issue 1: The absence of stabilized wheeled light tanks

Stabilized wheeled vehicles are probably some of the most fun and useful vehicles in the top-tier meta right now. Unfortunately, France currently has one 0 stabilized wheeled tank-destroyers in its tree. Despite this absence, France has no lack of options when it comes to this vehicle class. It would massively benefit the high-rank lineups if there were light vehicles to go along with the MBTs.

  • Sagaie 2

The Sagaie 2 was a further development of the Sagaie wheeled tank-destroyer. It featured a more powerful engine, but also the TTB190 turret which offered full weapon stabilization.

  • AMX-10RC (TML Late)

A prototype development of the AMX-10RC. This featured a late model TML turret which came equipped with a stabilizer. This one would be fairly easy for gaijin to implement as they can simply re-use the AMX-10RC hull.

  • VEXTRA 105

Possibly the most well-known and wanted option for this specific issue. The VEXTRA was a wheeled tank-destroyer armed with a fully stabilized 105mm cannon. This would be a perfect counterpart to the likes of the Type 16 and Centauro.

  • VEXTRA POLE

A further development of the VEXTRA vehicle, this one fitted with a 120mm cannon. The turret was known as the FER (Faible Effort de Recul) and was eventually fitted with its full fire-control-system before the project was cancelled.

Issue 2: The absence of auto-cannon wielding vehicles

IFVs and other auto-cannon wielding vehicles are another key aspect to higher rank gameplay, and one that’s almost entirely missing from the French tree. Currently we can say that there’s 2 of these vehicles, unfortunately the only high tier one of these is a premium. Despite promises we’d get a researchable counterpart, we’ve not seen that materialize as of right now.
France has mostly focused on producing wheeled IFVs, but some tracked options are also available.

  • AMX 10M HOT

Now that we have the AMX 10M ACRA in-game, this vehicle became more relevant. It is essentially the AMX-10 hull with the 20mm cannon, but instead of having a hull-mounted canon, it has the missile launchers on the side of the turret, making it a vastly more flexible platform, and an actual IFV.

  • AMX 10 TTB140

Another IFV based on the AMX 10 chassis, this time mounting the TTB140 turret. This turret features a powerful 40mm autocannon. This is essentially a proper IFV that will function like the AMX 13 DCA 40.

  • VBCI 2 T40M

A VBCI 2 variant featuring the 2-man T40M turret. Main armament consists of a 40mm autocannon that fires cased telescoped munitions. The same gun is also present on the EBRC Jaguar. The turret was also used on the AMX-10RCR T40M. Missile launcher boxes are present on the side, but it is unclear if these are functional, if so, they would likely launch HOT missiles.

  • VBCI

The original VBCI, mass produced and used by the French army. The standard version has a DRAGAR turret that comes equipped with a 25mm autocannon. The version in this image is equipped with the EIREL missile jamming system that we know from the AMX-30B2 BRENUS.

  • VBCI Philoctètes

An IFV proposal made to Greece. This vehicles features a VBCI hull paired with an unmanned T40 turret, similar to what can be found on the ERBC Jaguar. Main armament consists of a 40mm CTA autocannon together with a launcher for the F&F Akeron missile.

  • AMX 10P Dragar

amx10p25m

The standard AMX 10 IFV but with a Dragar turret. Basically a less mobile, but smaller version of the VBCI. Could be a fun vehicle to reinforce to mid ranks. Just like every other AMX 10 variant, it is amphibious.

  • AML Eclairage

Once again the chassis of the AML armoured car, but this time fitted with a multipurpose turret that came equipped with a 20mm autocannon and a MILAN missile launcher on top of that.

  • EBRC Jaguar

This one was always gonna be here, the EBRC Jaguar is France’s latest scout vehicle. While not technically a wheeled tank-destroyer, it’s also not an IFV. The Jaguar is intended to replace the ERC 90 and AMX 10RC, so I figured it fits best in this list. The vehicle is equipped with a 40mm autocannon and a pair of launchers for the FnF Akeron missile.

  • There is many more options available, but I cannot list them all, be sure to go have a look at the suggestions pages if you want to see more.

Issue 3: The absence of a lineup between 9.7 and 11.7:

This issue in particular is one of recent and coming interest. Not only does it make for a serious gap in progression that makes it more difficult to use the Leclercs after first getting them, it also has impact on a second topic. France’s missing top tier premium tank. We’ve basically been told that France cannot have a premium that’s on-par with other nation’s top premiums because there would be no lineup for it. Simultaneously, they make no effort at all to resolve this issue, which leaves the tree in an unfortunate limbo. Several of the previously mentioned vehicles could already serve to bridge this gap, but here are a few more vehicles that could fit here:

  • More AMX-40 versions:

The AMX-40 that we have in game represents the P4 prototype of this vehicle, besides this, there was also P1-3 and pre-production models P01 and P02. These features a variety of engines as well as slightly different turrets to set them apart from each other. Adding any of these could significantly bolster the 9.7 lineup which would make a premium at 10.0 or even 10.3 stand out less.

  • Leclerc prototypes:

The Leclerc MBT did not appear out of this air, it was preceded by a lengthy development cycle that produced several prototypes which became increasingly potent. These started with the MSC (in image) and subsequently evolved through Ares (P1, registration number 6894-0081), Bayard (P2, registration number 6894-0082), Carnot (P3, registration number 6894-0083), Duroc (P4, registration number 6894-0084), Estienne (P5, registration number 6904-0115), and Foch (P6, registration number 6904-0116).
These could be limited to the G1 shell to make them fit at a lower BR, they would also stand out through their inferior armor compared to production Leclercs (BIG note here, all Leclercs currently in-game have somehow been implemented with stats of the prototype armor as Sweden tested it in this setup and Gaijin used those test docs exclusively, and not the actual more potent production armor that they should have)

I would also like to briefly touch on some other points that tend to annoy me:

  • France together with Italy still lack any sort of squadron vehicle, despite many options being available
  • The existing high tank MBT (The AMX-30 Super) is significantly outclassed at its own BR. It’s round is the second worst top dart at 9.3, only being beaten by the abominable dart of the MBT-70 and variants. The next worst dart at 9.3 has 408mm pen, that’s an increase of 47mm or 13% over the French dart. Better options are available but not implemented.
  • As mentioned before, no top-tier premiums which keeps the winrate artificially high compared to other nations. This in turn results in certain historic buffs being withheld because the performance is “already adequate”.

Resolved issues:

Since my original post, the gap in the SPAA line has been significantly reduced, to a point where I don’t think it should still be an absolute priority. I would still love to see extra vehicles being added between 5.7 and 8.3 of course, but I do think other issues are now more pressing.

The end

That’s it for this post. If you have any further opinions, good or bad, I’d love to hear them. If you additionally have vehicles that you think would be a better fit than what I suggested, I would equally love to see them and possibly even include them in this post.
Let’s hope that we are seen so that the next patch can bear more fruit for us.

21 Likes

VBL ATM might be a good pick too as Gaijin can use the turret on two vehicles (the VBL and the Wiessel) while giving a solid ATGM + autocannon with thermal combo meme vehicle to two nations

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/GpZR85b.png

Also thinking about the israeli UT-30 on Renault VAB and Renault AMC and the CMI 25 on the Renault Sherpa , if Gaijin allows they could get missiles and become IFV-adjacent vehicles (this post is not sponsored by the diamond logo brand)

Spoiler

VAB
https://i.imgur.com/0wqGZGY.png
AMC
https://topwar.ru/uploads/posts/2011-12/1322745575_m02008062000212.jpg
Sherpa
https://i.imgur.com/lhqlgn2.jpeg

Enjoyable post, and easy to read unlike some wallas of text.

In your opinion, which of the aforementioned issues should be adressed first?

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VBL ATM is definitely a nice rat vehicle that I would love to have in game

I must admit I had completely forgotten about the UTC-30 armed vehicles, it’s a nice turret though. Can feature a small radar to find and track air targets.

Perhaps two can be solved in one. I would love to see a stabilized wheeled light tank personally, and if the right one is chosen then perhaps it could be a step in the right direction for the 9.7-10.3 lineup.
I fear that the latter is the most pressing issue currently as it prevents the French tree from being on par with other nations when it comes to premium additions.

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While I find your insight and willingness to tackle the misery that is the French ground tech tree admirable, I disagree on one specific point. I believe the lack of AA between 5.7 and 8.3 is a massive problem that needs to be addressed yesterday. Most other tech trees have at least one or two AA’s in that range, most with early radar or tracking systems. France goes from purely manual short range WWII stuff to the awesome but very high BR AMX-30 DCA. There is nothing to support the otherwise interesting 6.3 to 8.0 line up’s.

I agree completely however about the glaring need for high tier light vehicles, of course.

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Very good post, the French top tier really need more light vehicles.

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Yeah admittedly I’m just happy that we already have an spaa which I can actually use to shoot aircraft down lol.
As you say though, there is indeed still very much a gap and one which also has several existing options to fill it.

At this point I just don’t want another patch where the only thing we get is another SPAA system. I’m glad the issue has been acknowledged w being worked on, but it shouldn’t be the only thing that is being worked on…

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+1,
we would love to see friendly discussions

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