Yes but the game fundamentally changes at top tier.
2 Likes
People hate 5.7-6.3 because the matches are all 4 Ju-288+109+Do 355 vs 2 F2Gs+2 P-51Hs+2 other aircraft.
Small matches are just better, 16v16 leads to constant steamrolls.
I really hope gaijin removes it entirely, or adds the option to opt out of them at all BRs, because 16v16 is currently unacceptable.
4 Likes
Don’t they have fundamentally to start at playing low tier but why high tier, so that obvious i’m not seeing lower brs at 6v6
Should be 8 v 8. The fundamental problem is that there were too many players at top tier. 12 people is still a lot of people. 8 v 8, please. Also, please don’t have this be like night battles. Make it a separate queue. You have the ability built-in with map bans. Would not be that difficult to implement.
3 Likes
Yeah, back when map sizes were 50 - 70km x that amount you could F-14 spam.
Today less so, F-14s have to go for a little longer these days.
Arcade doesn’t have arcade player counts in matches.
@Ion_Protogen
Never saw a steamroll at props at higher player counts, only low player counts.
It’s why I supported this as an optional accessibility feature for players at AIM-9J+ missile BRs.
Prop matches go on for ages, which I love and don’t want to give up.
The trouble is, that as others have pointed out, a 12v12 is a 25% reduction in max net player rewards per game.
Without additional offsets to the rewards formula, that weren’t announced, it would be a significant drag on player progression if it was either mandatory or the default, and people would not doubt be complaining about THAT.
Similarly making it a binary choice would split the queue in half and introduce longer queue times for everybody which other people would not like.
Rad but can we have the option to force the setting rather than rolling the dice?
Same for night battles, I am A-Okay with waiting longer to roll a match of it means I get to play how I want.
It is much less common at prop tier, but even at 8.0 steamrolls are common in 16v16 matches.
The BR minimum of 10.0 in this proposal is just stupid, and is only a bandaid fix.
1 Like
Smaller teams will do so the same way or even worse, imagine it’s 4 vs 4 and you have two Tornados on your team with the enemy team being 4 F-16As… maybe the 4 on the enemy team are all in a squad…
In the worst case, small teams will first kill off all the planes that aren’t meta dogfighters as they become pointless to play. Then, as everyone only uses F-16s and Gripens, the worse players just die and die all the time (not everyone can improve to the same level for many reasons) and it becomes pointless for them to play the game. Then premium sales drop as people leave the game (or the mode) and Gaijin will have to make the premiums more meta to sell them to the remaining pro-players…
Crazy, almost like 5.7 isn’t 12.7.
Almost like, WW2 Era dogfights don’t have engagement ranges over a kilometer.
Gaijin blanketing all Ranks/BRs with the same rule is partly why this game is such a mess.
I remember when matches were 8v8 and 4 A-7Ds ended the match in 90 seconds.
@RealFreeOTOMATIC
I love 16v16 cause I wanted to experience a fraction of the pressure of Vietnam and Gulf War pilots did.
Other people don’t because they love war movies limited by staffing and the limit how how much us average people can pay attention to in a film, and a desire for low intensity engagements.
Both are valid reasons to want both.
I have far more to still learn from high intensity combat, so no desire to go 12v12 or less personally.
While I do understand that a reduction in rewards is a negative, it is a conscious decision being made by those who decide to queue up for those games. There are ways to reduce this of course. Boosting rewards for those smaller games is a possibility. At the end of the day though, it’s not as if you are forced to play the smaller games. It is a toggle.
As for longer queue times, this is also not an issue. Matches are rated for 6 - 16. There should be no difficulty in matching at least 12 players together. Warthunder has a large enough population. Top-tier matches are also quite fast in the regular modes. Meaning that there is a constant grind of players in matchmaking. For the smaller matches, any long queue times are also a conscious choice by those who decide to use it.
There are many ways to implement it as I stated. Most easily would be a 3-way toggle. 16 v 16 only, 16 v 16 with 8 v 8, and 8 v 8 only. This would not be difficult to implement at all and would most likely make everyone happy.
1 Like
ok A7Ds ending matches was a completely different issue.
- Airspawns
- Ground Units being tied to Ticket Bleed.
That’s not an comparable argument.
Vietnam and Gulf War Pilots didn’t have 3rd person view and nametags either. Furballs were miles long. The stories you hear about are condensed down to entertainment format. Bolo took place across a hundred miles if not more of airspace.
There is nothing interesting about 16v16 above BR 10.0 Even more so above 12.0.
The closest we ever got to anything like that was the battles of Korea. which is where 16v16 should really end
I mean no offense by this but there has to be a shred of common sense when it comes to analyzing what we can gather from historical events and first person stories.
2 Likes
12v12 is the best for ARB. It has the best balance between squads/individuals having too much effect, and the matches being too chaotic.
Third person is a method to give us parity with real life pilots, as they’re trained to be aware whereas we’re not trained in awareness honing.
Just a question: how will this be implemented when playing in a squad?
I’m specifically looking at Troll-squads, and with light difference BR around the 10.0 BR squads.
What will happen if:
A- squad chief is in 10.0 BR, but not the squadmate at 9.7
B- squad chief at reserve, and squadmate at 12.7
C- squad chief at 12.7, and 3 Reserve aircrafts
D- squad chief in 9.7 and 3 squadmates in 10.0
Those 4 exemples alone should be answered and treated if not already.
5 Likes
This is a really great point actually, not something I see discussed often.
Smaller match, because one player is 10.0 or higher and squad lead has it active.
This is already known from previous features.
Then a trollsquad will take up to 50% of team slots (in 6v6 which is minimum).
Enjoy the loss,…
1 Like