Opinions of the state of minor nations in War Thunder Part 2

Machinery of War Discussion
18

My main issue with Nations like France, Japan, Italy and Israel is the lack of domestic additions. Gaijin relies too much of Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V, instead of taking time to add domestic vehicles. France has a ton of light tanks and SPAA that just don’t exist. The Israeli air tree is basically a mix of French, British, and American stuff, and Japan and Italy just don’t get the additions they need. Even China is missing a ton of modern domestic vehicles that they should get.

I don’t want to see Leopards in the French tree, or 90% of the BeNeLux air tree, and I don’t want to see the Finnish air tree bee 90% copy+paste.

I’d change this to a lack of vehicles in general. High tier isn’t the only important part of the game.

9 Likes
19

Japanese tanks are overall just not very good, while the air tree is fairly good up to rank IV, but it suffers due to overtiering issues. High tier air is incredibly barren and there should be something added, preferably a subtree of some sort.

20

Where is that text?

21

Put Israel, because the Merkava actually suffers.

1 Like
22

In the 2nd poll.

23

cant change it. It will remove the results.

1 Like
24

Japan air is a bit empty yeah, but F15JM is probably the strongest jet RN, better IR missiles as well as multiple types of ARH available including AMRAAM.

1 Like
25

image

“I suffer more”

“No I suffer more”

How about no minor nation squabbling and we band together to take down the biggies

17 Likes
26

I’ll preface by saying, I think all of the nations on this list have issues in one area or another, and I’m generally quite sympathetic to the well constructed criticism I see from many of their ‘mains’ to such difficulties.

But we are all swayed by our own biases, and I am no different, so as an Israel main, I’m obviously going to say Israel.

Simply by virtue of being the newest country, in a game which recently celebrated its 12th anniversary, it’s always going to be an uphill struggle when you’re so many years worth of content updates behind everyone else.

But what makes this exponentially worse, is the stuff the snail chooses to add in the updates we have had. It’s just Magach after Magach after Magach (and now Sabra). The tree, up the entire BR spread, has a chronic and desperate lack of support vehicles (Lights / IFV / TD / SPAA), and the snail just doesn’t address it. It’s impossible to build healthy, well rounded lineups with only slow MBT’s.

What makes the above point especially depressing, is that there is tons of genuinely unique, domestic, interesting stuff they could add, but instead, we often only seem to get things if it’s a repurposed model, or if the the model can be given to someone else simultaneously. This invites the slander of some parts of the community branding it a ‘copy paste tree that should have never been added’, when it’s entirely the snails doing that it appears as such.

The rare times we do get the unique domestic stuff, it’s botched to all hell (Merkava, Namer, Sholef etc). They never add domestic munitions, they give our F-15/F-16’s the American stuff they did use, and when it comes to things they didn’t (I.e Mavericks), instead of getting a domestic counterpart, we just get nothing. A void in the modification tree. Worse is when other countries get Israel’s domestic stuff but not Israel (Lizards and the year long wait for Spikes comes to mind).

Is it all doom and gloom? No. Do other countries struggle more in different ways or at certain BR’s? Absolutely. I just believe as an overall package, Israel has the longest road ahead of it towards being made good.

8 Likes
27

Would have put Sweden, actually, give me a second.

28

Sweden, because the amount of decent lineups they have are none unless you want to talk top tier.

8.0 and 8.7 are an exception though.

29

I always feel like when gaijin come up with new vehicles they don’t do enough research or they straight up ignore their characteristic and give it a fictional values, so the vehicle that they added is being no more historical rather than what they actually have in their mind. Vextra 105 example, it had so many errors when it was added to first dev server or namer 30 or kf41 or 2A7’s ufp and acceleration etc this could go more. They have to get their source right or have to be honest with playerbase which both not gonna happen

30

At first I think these trees should get more vehicles each update, preferably not copypaste, compared to “major” nations until they have overall similar amount.

31

Here are some regards to each of the nation I play. I only have the Fuji and do not play Sweden, so I will not comment about them. Highlighted point is the one I concern the most.

Britain:
Air
Why are there no AMRAAM carriers that takes less than a city block to turn?
Why are there the least capable in standoff attacks in all western designs(bar Japan)?
Why are there a plethera of naval aircrafts not added? Spiteful, Barracuda, Albacore etc?
Ground
What about the rapiers instead of osa? They are slightly worse, but at 10.3 it is just enough.
Any regards to high tier wheeled vehicle? Sure, these are previliges to US, Sweden and Italy, but at least the rest has somewhat mobile MBTs.
What is the point about APDSs? Other trees has them but the entirety of mid tier Britain depends on it.
Naval
What is wrong with the QF 15in BL Mk.1? We know they are the most accurate during the interwar era.
Can there be at least some crew placement outside of boiler and unarmored compartments on the cruisers?

Italy:
Air
Can there be more Italian aircrafts? In the past two years the only thing that is authentically Italian was the AMX, excluding tornado.
What about the superprops? The Re.2006 and C.207 needs to be added.
Ground
Same as above.The ariete AMV was the last authentic Italian tank added, if you call that authentic.
(Helicopters)Can the ATAK finally receive its FnF ATGM? We know that SPIKEs arent much of a deal.

China:
Air
Not particularly suffering, but a good tier 7/8 premium is probably what China air needs the most.
When will the AMRAAMs for the MLU come? They arrived in Taiwan with these.
Ground
You know what I am going to say. 7.1s reload with 577mm pen.
Any chances for the Zhuhai airshow stuff? If there isnt the centauro 2, at least I will have a better version of that.
M1A2T when? They also arrived in Taiwan recently.
(Helicopters)Digital RWR would be much needed since that Chinese helicopters uses the slowest missile.

Israel:
Air
SPICE? Popeye? The lack of guided CAS at range is pretty concerning looking at the fact that CAS makes a big part of top tier.
Indegnious designs? Sure the Kfir C.10, lavi or MiG-21-2000 wont be particularly top tier worthy, but the biggest complaint gameplay-wise is the fact that its a “worse America”.
Ground
Are there any auxiliary vehicles? The namer is good for spawning CAS, but not really good on itself. Actually mobile vehicle or SAM are still nonexistent.
Any chance for troll/meme vehicles? The ram with a M40 is sure gonna be pretty fun.

France:
Air
Any chances for some flavors? As mentioned above, air tree are at a more balanced state than ground, but France lacks flavor.
Ground
Any chance at improving leclercs? Spall liners, more pen, fixed transmissions?
Any chances for light tanks? Jaguar? VEXTRA?

8 Likes
32

On regard of time, I guess its the point of monkeys with typewriters. If the game runs for 10 more years I am sure every tree will have the vehicle they deserve, Germany gets a MAN truck based pantsir, Russia gets their trialed centauro, US gets a type 69 captured in Iraq. But will they be available at a particular time in a particular meta? Probably no.

33

I don’t know why when a minor nation player said they need better equipments, there’s always another minor player said they suffer more so they need be improved first, instead of requesting Gaijin fix ALL these nations

34

I think the point is though, they could add a dozen vehicles to a minor nation and it fix nothing, or they could add 1 or 2 well thought out additions that actually deal with the problem a minor nation is having, combined with actually fixing some very old issues for existing vehicles and much of that suffering goes away.

Like actually adding a top tier SPAA for Israel and Italy or fixing the ready rack for the CR1/2s.

Quite often Gaijin’s solution isnt to fix the problem, but bandaid it with a totally different vehicle. Like slapping a Leopard 2A7 in the Italian tree instead of fixing the Ariete. Seems like they are doing the same “fix” for France.

With the amount of vehicles added each major update, they could address every single minor nations most immediate problems, in 1 single update, if they made the effort. Figuring out those problems would just take some community consultation

7 Likes
35

And that’s a reason why i see some Chinese players boycott Singapore vehicles, cause they afraid when they ask Gaijin to fix they own their domestic vehicles, Gaijin will say “You already have F-15SG and Leo 2SG, now get away and shut up”

I agree they could add sub-TT for these nations which have their domestic vehicles but don’t have enough vehicle for a full TT, but the domestic vehicles should be considered first. Also the sub TT should also be special like N. and S. Korea, which have their own Chonma-2 and K2, instead of infinity C&P Leopards, or at least they have their own special upgrades like CM-11 or Strv 122s. BNL TT is really horrible… as their have only few domestic designs

36

and this is why I fight so hard against sub-TTs for Britain. When I ask for fixes for the Tornado F3 or SHar FA2 people bring up the Gripen.

Im of the opinion that with a few very very niche examples. No nation “needs” a Sub-TT. They all have or had options, but just take effort or some… creative license (like adding tested vehicles/prototypes)

4 Likes
37

100%.

Subtree’s should be the last resort. The icing on the cake. A way to keep updating tree’s, and bolstering lineups after domestic options have been depleted.

They keep telling us the line ‘nothing comes in place for something else’, but so often it doesn’t feel like that when you go on to wait years (or forever and counting) for the domestic option.

So often I feel this sentiment gets misconstrued for ungratefulness, when it’s not that, it’s more just the opportunity cost that weighs on the mind.

2 Likes