Old 12.3-13.0 jets are falling behind

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
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21

ok,… i understand that you’re saint thomas,… i’ll take F-16A blk 10 for a couple of spins, see you after that.

ended after 10 games (because i don’t have all my time for proving you wrong):
6 deaths (R-73 : 2 / R.550 Magic-2: 2 / AIM-9L: 1 / Gun: 1)
10 kills (gun: 2 / AIM-9L : 8)
2 assists

Total KD: 1.66
Total death by Fox-3/ARH : 0!
Total death by Fox-2/IR : 5
Total death by Fox-1/SARH: 0!
Total death by gun : 1

games BR
11.3/12.3 : 1 (10%)
11.7/12.7: 3 (30%)
12.0/13.0 : 4 (40%)
12.3/13.3 : 2 (20%) - fox-3 are only appearing at that BR-

Total winrate: 70% (only 3 games lost out of 10)

Gear used: F-16A blk 10
6xAIM-9L
For the gun, band of ammo used : Default
30 flares / 30 chaffs
30min + additional Center fuel tank only on greatest maps

Crew used:

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so no qualifications to upgrade my G tolerance, only the full G skill upgrade

Personnal Note: God i was rusty at first

Personnal Analysis of those games:
ARH missiles:
no Fox-3/Fox-1 deaths occured - most were notched,

SARH missiles:
Only 1 Skyflash(DF) critically hit me without killing me
i recieved damage from that one :
half my tail cut
nose section and inner right wing in black
But the plane was still “flyable”
it’s because i notched it late, that it was able to be in range in order for it to explode

no R-23R/R-24R/R-27R or similar ever hit me - all notched
no AIM-7P/M/F ever hit me - all notched
no Super530/R.530 were used by all Mirage F.1’s and 2000 that i encountered

IR Missiles:
R-73 are nearly impossible to Flare (and i had one R-73 fired at me, doing 5 differents drifting turns before it got beaten kinetically, but i ended so slow that the MiG-21 gunned me down)
→ i don’t understand how Su-39 (11.3, which also have Tail-IRCM) and MiG-21Bison(12.3) are at their respective BR with those missiles.

Magic-2 are strong (2 got me), but are still decoyable (a total of 7 were shot at me)

AIM-9L killed me once (out of maybe 12 fired at me,… i lost count) from a Swiss F/A-18 that had me locked on Radar (i thought he fired an AIM-7 instead, so pulled chaffs instead of flares)

Gun and Turnfight:
i was able to gun down a Mirage 2000C S4 in a duel (we were both in the same side where all both our teammates where on the other side), so F-16A blk10 is still pretty usable in a turnfight.

1 Like
22

So is this a question you want me to answer or not because it seems like you already know why.

23

@tokerstar :
still don’t understand how Fox-1/early fox-3 are a problem at 12.3 BR

24

So you dropped from 2.4 KD to 1.66 KD and only got 8 missile kills in 10 games with a total of 60 possible shots? That’s 13.33% missile efficiency - almost Vietnam War levels of outstanding kill probability.

Thank you for proving my point that this jet needs Aim-9M’s.

25

it never recieved it in Blk10 variant - unless you have documentation saying otherwise?

but anyway the problem is that even with AIM-9M, you can’t have IRL results within the game,…

MICA is said to have a Pk rate of 0.9993, yet, in-game it doesn’t reach that, because of many reasons:
More possible G in pulls
User Interface showing you: Burning Missiles / RWR / Radar (some even got “missile alert” displayed in red on the screen)
Multipathing bugs

so you’re delusionnal if you compare in-game performances to IRL.
in the same way, we can speak of Magic-2 (2hits / 7 fired vs IRL Pk rate of 0.93)
or any other IR missiles.

so your argument is just a mere attempt to justify your bullshit,… stop being such an assisted guy, and try harder,…

26

2.52 (if you wanna compare previous stats, without the actual test done here)

and your argument was that you encounter and die from Fox-3 too much:

i proved first of all, that you don’t encounter a lot of 13.3 (Fox-3 carriers), and yet that you can not die from those easily (not even Fox-1 or Fox-3 even killed me)

and i’ve hit more with my AIM-9L Fox-2 (8/10kills in 10 games) - that everyone else did hit me with Fox-2 (5 out of 6 deaths on 10 games).

you clearly don’t know how to use your F-16 and that’s not a “balance problem”, but a “You problem”

27

Never said that.

I don’t compare it to real life. I am making fun of 13.33% effectivness rate of your Aim-9L’s launches.

Now that may be true. But what about R-73’s on MiG-29? Aim-9’Ls on F-14A and Aim-9M’s on F-14B?

28

but no,… you’re not doing that,… #lies

which variant - there is several variants implying several modifications

i’m not against adding those missiles (but there will be some BR change in gaijin PoV - as we can’t allow f-14’s to be at BR where stomping everyone is easy, considring the current average KD is over 1.2, they’re not in a dire need)
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my priority is to be against newbs saying that those 12.3/12.7 aircraft are jokes today for reasons that are not true,…

i make it worked, and the proofs are here.

even better than the average F-16A blk 10 players
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just understand that Average players are bad,… but they’re told to be bad,… most grinded the Techtree by using an F-4S and only bombing bases.

29

R-73 is literally available for every MiG-29 valiants, except prototype or smt…

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VA_661_2

30

the Mig-29A (9.12 and 9.12A) were serviced in 1983, the R-73 got in service in 1984
so there is a timeline problem.

also Gaijin Devs one year ago:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/kSSPSRqYS0t2

31

Mig 29s are all compatible with r73, but they entered service with only r60s

32

It really doesn’t matter.

The R-27ER entered service long after the R-73 arrived, and it is still unclear whether it could have been operational at 9.12/9.13.

Ultimately, the level of weaponry is entirely determined by the Gaijin’s discretion, and historical accuracy is largely ignored in most cases.

1 Like
33

7ms and 7fs are identical in game

it has a much better flight model

2 Likes
34

Why are ypu not showing the other jets around the BR?.. all higher than 0.64 kills per spawn

How many games today- how many kills?
Irrelevant really anyway… The 0.64 says it all.

Ud have to show how you play as if as im correct guessing its scared puss gameplay then its also irrelevent.

I just looked at the f4s stats. You know the king of zombin gameplay , just lol.
I see why you didnt compare…

35

Thats maybe the stats you racked up when they were meta and nothing could come close to them. But give a newer player with the same skill these aircraft in todays matchmaker and it wont be nearly as close. It is sadly true, power creep has made some of these jets like the F-14A early totally unrecognizable compared to their glory days when they came out (though when jets like say the F14 came out it was total dominance by US teams just because of it). But thats just gonna keep on happening to aircraft in these copressed BRs until they either decompress them or help them out in another way. Moving them down in BR right now will just make a problem for the lower tiers.

36

Are those global all time stats you are showing me? You, the person who showed his 2023 F-16A stats? And you accuse me of lying?

37

no both are the exact same,…

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38

says that everyone does a bad job while playing it? yeah really,…

better to rely on a better missile than thinking about all the mistakes you’ve made so far,…

39

so you’re the one going head-on with PD radars FOX1/Fox-3 carriers and never notch? no wonder why the results are so low,…

i’m no stupid, neither are IRL pilots you’ve been comparing my AIM-9L rates to,…
you have 6x 9L how many does kill the the way you use them, over 10 game, … maybe 4,… being lucky to fight the same kind of players as you’re,…

don’t get me started on how stupid it is to simply rush-in midmap - it’s a blatant error, yet so many thinks it’s “so cool” or “efficient” to get shot at by 25 missiles at the same time,…

don’t bring onto me, the low survivability of any aircraft in the game, when you all guys are playing like monkeys,…

40

The ammount of games played premiun phantom vs f16a.tells the story

And we all know how the phanrom players roll.

Yet with so few games played comparativly the f16a still takes the L

Theres no logical explanation other than the obvious. Id even say the f16a only gets played by above average players… which makes the overall even worse