Obus sous-calibré à sabot détachable 75/54/40 for AMX-13 (75mm) variants

[Would you like to see this in-game?]
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

I’d like to suggest the addition of the 75/54/40 “Obus sous-calibré à sabot détachable” for the 75mm SA 50 gun fitted on the AMX-13 75 tank series.

IMG_3722

Historical background:

In the 1950s, the DEFA (Direction des Études et Fabrications d’Armements) launched a study to equip the AMX-13 tank with an APDS shell, with the aim of improving the tank’s capabilities. It was tested in 1956 and performed well. However, the EMAT (Etat-Major de l’Armée de Terre) did not adopt the shell, to avoid compromising a potential upgrade of the tank around the 90mm HEAT shell (which would later lead to the AMX-13/90 tank). It therefore never entered production.

It appears the Swiss tested and produced this round in 1959 under the name of “Pz.Ke.G” for the Lpz 51 (Swiss version of the AMX-13 75) but we also don’t know if it entered service.

Description:

This was a 56mm-diameter APCBC projectile with a 40mm tungsten core and a 75mm sabot.

Stats:

-Name: Obus sous-calibré à sabot détachable 75/54/40
-Type : APDS
-Weight: 3.9 kg
-Performance :
Muzzle velocity: 1310 m/s
IMG_4903

In-game utility:

Despite the fact that the AMX-13 has good shells in the game, it can sometimes have trouble damaging certain more armored targets at long distances: that’s why I suggest adding this new shell to the AMX-13’s 75 SA 50 guns. It would be even more useful for the HOT variant, which can’t do any damage with its 8.3 gun: for this reason, it’s rarely seen in battle, and when it is played, fire is exchanged solely with missiles. This new shell would enable it to perform much better and regain importance with players. Of course, this addition would make the tank better, and consequently its br could be increased to 7.0 for the AMX-13 and its SS.11 variant, while the HOT would remain at 8.3.

Credit:

I’d like to mention @CaID for his post on the old forums and the documents he found to enhance the precision of this suggestion.

Traduction française

J’aimerais suggérer l’ajout de l’ “obus sous-calibré à sabot détachable 75/54/40” pour le canon de 75mm SA 50 équipé sur la série de chars AMX-13 75.

Contexte :

Dans les années 1950, la DEFA (Direction des Études et Fabrications d’Armements) lance une étude visant à équiper le char AMX-13 d’un obus APDS dans le but d’améliorer les capacités du blindé. Il est testé en 1956 et obtient de bonnes performances. Cependant l’EMAT (État-Major de l’Armée de Terre) n’adopte pas l’obus pour éviter de compromettre une potentielle valorisation du char autour de l’obus HEAT de 90mm (qui aboutira plus tard sur le char AMX-13/90). Il n’est donc jamais entré en production.

Il semblerait que l’armée suisse ait testé et produit cet obus en 1959 sous la dénomination “Pz.Ke.G” pour leurs Lpz 51 (version suisse de l’AMX-13 75). Cependant ici aussi, nous ne savons pas si l’obus est entré service.

Description :

Il s’agissait d’un projectile APCBC de 56mm de diamètre comportant un cœur de tungstène de 40mm associé à un sabot de 75mm.

Caractéristiques :

  • Nom : Obus sous-calibré à sabot détachable 75/54/40
  • Type : APDS
  • Masse : 3,9 kg
  • Performances :
    Vitesse initiale : 1310 m/s
    IMG_4903

Utilité en jeu :

Malgré le fait que l’AMX-13 possède de bons obus dans le jeu, il peut parfois avoir du mal à endommager certaines cibles plus blindées à de longues distances : c’est pourquoi je suggère l’ajout de ce nouvel obus pour les canons 75 SA 50 des AMX-13. Il serait d’autant plus utile pour la variante HOT qui n’arrive pas à faire de dégâts avec son canon en 8.3 : il est pour cette raison délaissé des lineup donc extrêmement rarement vu en bataille et quand il est joué, les échanges de tirs se font uniquement avec les missiles. Ce nouvel obus lui permettrait d’avoir de bien meilleures performances et de retrouver de l’importance auprès des joueurs. Bien-sûr cet ajout rendrait le char meilleur et par conséquent son br pourrait être augmenté à 7.0 pour l’AMX-13 et sa variante SS.11 alors que le HOT resterait en 8.3.

Crédit :

J’aimerais mentionner @CaID pour son post sur les anciens forums et les documents qu’il a fournis pour améliorer cette suggestion.

Sources :

Spoiler

IMG_3719
IMG_3716

  • Documents on the Pz.KeG shell from the Swiss archives (provided by @CaID)
Spoiler

IMG_4896
IMG_4897
IMG_4898
IMG_4899
IMG_4900
IMG_4901

Spoiler

IMG_3717

Edit :

  • 21/05/2024 added informations from the Swiss archive
13 Likes

Might have to increase the BR of the vehicles that get it, but I would love to have it. +1

1 Like

+1 the amx-13 (HOT) should have released with it.

7 Likes

A prototype round for a prototype vehicle sounds fair. :)

8 Likes

Also, for a vehicle that’s basically just a much higher br placed amx-13 with atgms strapped on top. After the atgm changes, this round is necessary in my opinion.

10 Likes

got some additional infos found in the Swiss archive today

Spoiler






it appears the Swiss produced this round in 1959. or at least they did to test it. i found that info in the documents the Swiss archive sent me today

and I initially thought to find a Swedish APDS for the Pak.51

3 Likes

Big Thanks! I will try to update the post soon.

Btw, I still wonder how you’re not a suggestion moderator yet. X)

1 Like

the suggestion moderators are a team that covers all sides of the suggestion. to work well, you need to have a moderator who is capable of understanding the game in every single aspect. for example, you need one for the SHip, another for the Tank, and another for the Planes. and once you have each of them, you need to cover the different languages to check the sources when needed.

in my case, my capacity was already filled by one or many of their members. so I am not needed for now. besides, i love to make suggestions/research. if i became a suggestion moderator, I would be capable of approving my suggestion, leaving the team without a job suddenly. i had reached several 64 pending suggestions once. it was 2 week ago, just before they recruited 3 new members

i was previously a moderator ingame, about 2 years ago. i still have rather good relation with many of the moderators right now. while not denying the possibility of returning moderator one day, it would be a decision that would be taken in consideration of the time-consuming responsibility and the balance in my own life.

3 Likes

Yes I feel the same. After the ATGM changes, I consider the AMX-13 HOT to be, at best, a side-grade to the AMX-13 SS.11. It’s very sad

1 Like

Edited 👍

1 Like

The French light tanks always received a BR increase to the point where the ammo is sometimes struggling to penetrate some of the vehicles they meet on battlefield. This addition would be nice for them to beef up their capabilities!

1 Like

Having at a such br the AMX-13(hot) with a 1950’s munition is wild 💀. I don’t know who make the decision at gaijing, but he loves vodka for having that kind of crazy idea.