Now With the M1 being Brought to 10.7, Can We Finally Receive M833?

[PT1GodHunter]

Why is this even still an argument, even if the M1 had M833 it would be such a minor upgrade it wouldn’t even change anything besides the fact that penetration is now less inconsistent and the sorta fix the low spalling(though this can still be stuck in with the previous statement)

The round is just bad and even things at much lower BRs have better rounds than it such as the T-62M1, Leopard 1A1/5, Radkampfwagen, Leopard 2K, AMX-40 and this keeps going.

in a vacuum of nothing but statistics it looks perfectly fine, the gun might be mediocre but the mobility is amazing and the armor is decent.

But the problem comes in when you bring up the fact it’s war thunder and a real 3D environment, the round it has may usually be able to pen a T-72 turms from the side but the round is bad enough that the contact one on the side can eat the whole thing if you’re unlucky, it’s also 105 when nearly every other MBT has a 120 which in game has (seemingly) twice the spall(combining damage and fragment amount)

In the Leopard 2A4 shooting another 2A4 in the hull often does tons of damage or kills them outright, but in my experience in the M1 with M774 it either kills 1 guy, doesn’t pen or kills 2 and the engine, you could argue a skill issue here but at 10.7 and above you really don’t have time to aim very well most of the time and it’s usually who ever clicks first wins, but not when you click first and the round kills one guy and looses enough power to not kill the second.

M833 isn’t some god round that’ll literally make the M1 the best tank in the game, but what it will do is make it less infuriating to play at times.

(You basically have no chance against stuff like the T-80UD and M833 isn’t going though that thing either)

[MotorolaCRO]

@PT1GodHunter

The round is just bad and even things at much lower BRs have better rounds than it such as the T-62M1, Leopard 1A1/5, Radkampfwagen, Leopard 2K, AMX-40 and this keeps going.

M1 might have a worse round than things at a much lower BRs, but you have to realize other tanks will have worse metrics than things at a much lower BR, that’s just how stuff works in this game.
For example, T-72B has mobility that you used to see on ~8.3 vehicles, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad tank overall and in a need of buffs.

@PT1GodHunter

But the problem comes in when you bring up the fact it’s war thunder and a real 3D environment, the round it has may usually be able to pen a T-72 turms from the side but the round is bad enough that the contact one on the side can eat the whole thing if you’re unlucky

K-1 eating rounds from side on is a bug and will happen even with top tier rounds, it’s not a M774 specific issue.

@PT1GodHunter

but in my experience in the M1 with M774 it either kills 1 guy, doesn’t pen or kills 2 and the engine, you could argue a skill issue here but at 10.7

I had zero issues OHK’ing 2A4s with M774.
If you kill only a single crew from the frontal shot you’re probably aiming to the right side and killing only it’s loader or going for low shot to the LFP. I doubt I ever saw a Leopard not exploding after getting shot in the driver’s optic.

@PT1GodHunter

You basically have no chance against stuff like the T-80UD and M833 isn’t going though that thing either

What’s so difficult about T-80UD ?
It gets a slightly better reload but loses thermals while inheriting common flaws from T-series tanks so usual weakspots will still work.

[PT1GodHunter]

@MotorolaCRO

What’s so difficult about T-80UD ?
It gets a slightly better reload but loses thermals while inheriting common flaws from T-series tanks so usual weakspots will still work.

The problem is it has contact 5 covering most weak points and the only real one for the M774 is the very top of the drivers port the rest of it is covered in contact the breach is too think for M774 and after the barrel buffs even that isn’t a good spot to hit.

[MotorolaCRO]

What do you mean ?
It doesn’t have K-5 on it’s LFP nor on it’s driver’s port, which are the two most common places you’ll aim at. You can still disable the breech/barrel by shooting at it as well.

[ww2planes]

When was the last time you ran the 105mm M1? That’s a genuine question because I can tell you, just aiming for the breach is gonna get you killed because the game isn’t a 1v1

[Dinfire]

He squads every time, and he plays a lot more USSR than he does US.

[Dinfire]

@Jεcka

That’s why US has been handed out M829A2 at top tier like it’s candy, and why most of Germany between 9.0 and 12.0 hasn’t been changed in any way for the last 6 months,

@БЕИ

That’s why I think the TTS stays at 9.0 with M774, it shouldn’t go any higher because it will perform worse at 9.3 with M833 than M774 at 9.0

You both realize by saying this you’re proving my point.

The entire argument of the naysayers here is a stonewall of, “It’s not bad, Gaijin has no reason to do so.”

When I play top tier US regularly, if I’m on European Province, Red Desert, or any other long range map, I can’t even bother bringing an M1 and expect to pen something reliably except if they’re side on.

Many of you have been arguing that because you’ve been begging for your lines that you deserve it more than the USA players.

Yet I have top tier in MOST of the nations, and I’m asking for a round that isn’t even M900 levels of penetration, to give it parity.

And even that gets this sort of vicious feedback.

Which frankly is testament that someone somewhere needs to revisit the idea. Line-ups matter, as does ammunition. And if ammunition isn’t good enough, then add the ammo that makes historical sense and balanced sense.

Are Leopard 2A4s suffering with DM23? Can they not reliably pen tanks in their BRs? If they couldn’t, you’d have an argument to add DM33, and yet, clearly, that’s not the case.

That’s because at 10.7, only light tanks and M1s exist with 105s. Every other nation’s main battle tank at this BR is 120mm or 125mm, minimum. No amount of reload rate makes up for a round that can’t hit hard enough to damage the opponent. That’s why Boxer MGS gets a DM63 round with 430mm flat pen starting at 10.3. It’s why Vilkas get ATGMs. The Centauro Is get DM33 with 408mm of flat pen at 9.7.

Everyone catching on here?

In sum, if I play Germany, I don’t need to question how powerful my round is, I know I’m going to hurt the enemy, even frontally, if I’m accurate. The same with the T72A and onwards. In the case of the M1 and M1 KVT, you can’t do that with the final tier round M774.

And for those arguing that you just aim for the weak points, do keep in mind that you’re not engaging on long-range maps, you’re brawling, and I guarantee if you played 40 matches in a row of USA against Type 90s, Leopard 2s, et al, you’d be seriously questioning your sanity after awhile. Only under controlled environments do your long-range shots work, like the other guy showed. Which means the other guy doesn’t move or shoot.

Hint, in real gaming, your opponent is shooting back.

[Casino_Knight]

Time to play guess the shell at 2000m since apparently every other tank at long range doesn’t need to aim for weakspots and is super reliable at long range except for the M1 allegedly.

The leopard 2A4 isn’t likely to receive DM33 because it is performing within expectations, and the M1 as far as the statistics we have show it is performing better than the 2A4 so it will not be receiving M833.

I highly suggest you submit a bug report though so this topic can reach some finality.

[Dinfire]

@Casino_Knight

Time to play guess the shell at 2000m since apparently every other tank at long range doesn’t need to aim for weakspots and is super reliable at long range except for the M1 allegedly.

Shell deviation is a thing. But sure, 1 in every 50 rounds fired will get you the perfect angle.

And I plan to submit a suggestion.

[Casino_Knight]

Shell deviation is a thing. But sure, 1 in every 50 rounds fired will get you the perfect angle.

I am glad you are aware that all nations have shell deviation, I’m not seeing how this is relevant to my post however.

Best of luck with your bug report.

[Dinfire]

@Casino_Knight

I am glad you are aware that all nations have shell deviation, I’m not seeing how this is relevant to my post however.

I’m glad you’re aware that shell deviation changes the penetrating power of all said rounds, and most rounds have more than 400mm of pen to compensate at the 10.7 BR, except M774. Thanks for the well wishes.

[Casino_Knight]

I’m glad you’re aware that shell deviation changes the penetrating power of all said rounds, and most rounds have more than 400mm of pen to compensate at the 10.7 BR, except M774. Thanks for the well wishes.

And you seem to not be aware that this has absolutely nothing to do with the post you responded to citing shell deviation. You claim that other tanks do not have any issues at long range because of their shells and only the M1 does, so I posted an image showing various different shells at long range against a T-80B (as we have all accepted that they are generally more armoured than other vehicles at their respective BRs).

Wherein you may have missed it but each of the shells performs incredibly similar, meaning that all vehicles which use said shells will be required to aim for the same weakspots. All these shells are subject to shell deviation so all potentially have the same problem.

[Dinfire]

@Casino_Knight

And you seem to not be aware that this has absolutely nothing to do with the post you responded to citing shell deviation. You claim that other tanks do not have any issues at long range because of their shells and only the M1 does, so I posted an image showing various different shells at long range against a T-80B (as we have all accepted that they are generally more armoured than other vehicles at their respective BRs).

You mean aside from post penetrating damage, of course. You know, the thing that matters most, like I explained in the earlier post?

Doesn’t matter if you pen if you don’t get spall.

Also, the 3BM46 is apparently suffering the same problem, since I hit an M1A1 Clickbait at a perfect angle through the driver port at 1500 meters, but got no spalling and didn’t even take a crew member or damage the engine.

[Casino_Knight]

You mean aside from post penetrating damage, of course. You know, the thing that matters most, like I explained in the earlier post?

Damage to all areas shown within the image I posted is essentially the same.

Doesn’t matter if you pen if you don’t get spall.

I’m going to require evidence that 105 sabot doesn’t spall.

Also, the 3BM46 is apparently suffering the same problem, since I hit an M1A1 Clickbait at a perfect angle through the driver port at 1500 meters, but got no spalling and didn’t even take a crew member or damage the engine.

There is an outstanding bug report for the M1s not spalling when shot in the hull and has been acknowledged.

[Dinfire]

@Casino_Knight

There is an outstanding bug report for the M1s not spalling when shot in the hull and has been acknowledged.

You mean the same type of bug report that asked that the turret ring be fixed on M1A1s et al?

Good to know. Yet another programming and modeling issue.

Also, 3BM42 did better on post pen damage than 46. So it appears to go by how much armor it “picks up” on going through.

And I don’t think I’m going to buy that you ever fired at 2k to a target in game. Certainly not with the M1.

[Casino_Knight]

And I don’t think I’m going to buy that you ever fired at 2k to a target in game.

Lol

[БЕИ]

@Dinfire

And I don’t think I’m going to buy that you ever fired at 2k to a target in game. Certainly not with the M1.

What does this mean, you mean the target range at 2km? Before the large Tunisia got changed, players literally fire fights 10 seconds into the game from spawn to spawn, that’s over 2km and Abrams can arcs its shell by staying completely hidden behind the cover, range find with binocular then change to gunner sight to align, literally bullied T- series that got tracked and farm rp/sp with it lol at one point I carry full ammo and was able to finish all of them from trolling the enemies, got 30 hit counts until I get bombed in my spawn lol

[MotorolaCRO]

@ww2planes

When was the last time you ran the 105mm M1?

A while back.

@ww2planes

That’s a genuine question because I can tell you, just aiming for the breach is gonna get you killed because the game isn’t a 1v1

Sorry but this is unironically a skill issue moment.
Going for the breech/gun in situations where you don’t have enough time to aim for OHK spots is a valid tactic in most BRs, 10.7 included and especially against tanks with pathetic reverse speeds like T-series tanks.

[MotorolaCRO]

@Dinfire

He squads every time, and he plays a lot more USSR than he does US.

You’re now straight up lying. I think I played solo for like 98% of my games.

@Dinfire

Line-ups matter, as does ammunition. And if ammunition isn’t good enough, then add the ammo that makes historical sense and balanced sense.

Lineups don’t matter in determining vehicle’s BR.
Ammo matters in determining vehicle’s BR, but this can be said for like half a dozen of other metrics and just because one of those metrics is bad on your vehicle, that doesn’t mean your vehicle is suffering and in need of a buff.

@Dinfire

Are Leopard 2A4s suffering with DM23? Can they not reliably pen tanks in their BRs? If they couldn’t, you’d have an argument to add DM33, and yet, clearly, that’s not the case.

DM23 can reliably penetrate most tanks the same as M774 can. They’ll have to aim for common weakspots just like M774 users will have to do.

@Dinfire

No amount of reload rate makes up for a round that can’t hit hard enough to damage the opponent.

M774 can hit hard enough to damage the opponent from every angle. It’s entirely on you if you can’t, don’t blame the round.

@Dinfire

It’s why Vilkas get ATGMs.

Vilkas has a 30mm cannon, of course it will get ATGMs.

@Dinfire

The Centauro Is get DM33 with 408mm of flat pen at 9.7.

I’m glad you mentioned Centauro. Yes, it has DM33 at 9.7 but somehow is still an inferior vehicle to XM8, which is another light vehicle at 9.7 that only has M774.
You see, something can have sub-par round for it’s BR but still be among the best vehicles, just like M1 is at 10.7.

@Dinfire

In the case of the M1 and M1 KVT, you can’t do that with the final tier round M774.

Yes you can.

@Dinfire

and I guarantee if you played 40 matches in a row of USA against Type 90s, Leopard 2s, et al, you’d be seriously questioning your sanity after awhile.

Playing 40 full uptier matches in a row would make me question my sanity in any vehicle, not just M1.

[Axzuel]

Now that I think about it

Will m833 really be that game changing for the M1? I mean its only 20mm of extra pen.