Type 74s have better mobility.
Chinese TTS is 900kg lighter and will have 0.2 HP/t more.
ZTZ88s have better mobility.
OF-40 Mk.2A have better gun handling and mobility.
Magach 6M has 0.7 HP/t more.
This happens to this day as well, blame BR compression.
It doesn’t have thermals.
If we are going to compare vehicles pro and con like this. we should bring out the stat exact number. Either stock or spade. Because sometime some of those stat aren’t that far apart from each vehicles.
And I am going to brings out this again. The 3 main stat are
1.Mobility (HP/tons+reverse speed) M60s patton has mediocre mobility even worst than T-64A except reverse speed. The good news is that most map are small or in urban. But that would also make Thermal advantage redundant. I would argue that Laser range finder are more important than thermal. Especially after they introduce thermal Gen 1,2,3
2.Fire-power (Penetration+Fire rate) M60s has ok power but same tier there are better Darts. with M833 add It wouldn’t change that either
3.Armor (ability to stop round+ERA) M60A3 tts turret are Decent after mantlet fix but against APFSDS/HEAT-FS on main cannon around that BR. it still not somethings to be reliable on. ERA can stop HEAT and ATGM from time to time but that is. if enemy somehow design to shoot HEAT at your ERA They can also aim for weak spot like turret ring or the gap in ERA on mantlet.
Armor would mean a lot more if we’d have Infantry running around shooting rocket at you. But since that isn’t the case in War Thunder . Mobility still remain more viable than Armor.
At this point M833 and 0.3 BR incease for M60s would be ok by me.
also as Casino_Knight point out this is a bit off topic. But i think the stat and pro vs con can be relate.
And why don’t they change the Br?
I personally prefer that tanks use the bullets they historically used and that they face tanks from similar eras. It is clear that in some WW2 tanks it would be a problem, but in tanks from the Cold War onwards it would not be so problematic.
For 10.7, only the challenger has a 5 second reload.
Type 10 - 7 degrees
ZTZ-99A - 5 degrees
Ariete - 9 degrees
Leclerc - 8 degrees
Merkava - 7 degrees
Only abrams and challenger have -10 degrees at top tier.
Dates really dont matter in this game, if they were you would have unstabilised M60 and Leopard 1’s against T-64A, doubt anyone would love that.
The suspension control allows Type 10 to get at least -12 degrees of gun depression.
Everything else is correct.
-10 degrees of gun depression is above average, but nothing too crazy.
oh yeah, forgot about that, my bad
US TTS at 9.3? It will be an inferior version of M48 Super in terms of mobility lol I rather it stayed at 9.0 with M774 as it gets better matchmaking bro
I mean that further shows my point. Gaijin does not treat US tanks the same as it treats other tanks. If the M1 was German or Soviet, it would have M833.
Fair but that’s my point, we have it using the round it originally came out with, which was dated even when it came out, fighting tanks FAR past the retirement age with rounds that completely negate the armor (which is a huge thing at that BR). It’d be different if the M1 could at least punch back but even with the slightest of uptiers, the M773 is effectively useless unless you manage to get a flank off (which, most of the maps don’t allow you to get a good one).
There’s shouldn’t be that much of a difference at 0.3 of a BR shift…
That’s why I think the TTS stays at 9.0 with M774, it shouldn’t go any higher because it will perform worse at 9.3 with M833 than M774 at 9.0 because the mobility lacking so much and the armor already doesn’t work at 9.0, M48 platform was never great to begin with, 9.0 you will face mostly Germany and M735 is more than enough to OHKO them, even funnier since I gotten the M774 my KDR has dropped by .3 lol it seems like the M735 has more OHKO power than the M774? there is some slight weight difference.
It also has thermals at 9.0, T-62M1 doesn’t have it, Chinese T-69IIG didn’t have it, it’s actually perfectly placed now if you asked me, I’ve also learned to use that brain tumor as a bait to lure enemies into shooting it, as long as it is APFSDS they will repeatedly hit the dead commander, which allows my teammates to return fire. Literally turning the negative into positive lol
Lol what. The same Germany who’s been refused weapon systems over and over and over again despite practically begging for them? Even to a point where the Leopard 2PL is still running around with the never-used DM43, in-spite of using DM53(DM63) in real life instead (same case with the Leopard 2A4M CAN and its KE-W, that it of course, shouldn’t have as the vehicle itself uses DM53A1 in real life), just because it’s doing better than the Click-Bait players?
Gaijin is treating US tanks the same as any other, i.e;
That’s why US has been handed out M829A2 at top tier like it’s candy, and why most of Germany between 9.0 and 12.0 hasn’t been changed in any way for the last 6 months, and why even the objectively inferior vehicles, despite being the same BR, still haven’t been brought up to M1A1 AIM/Click-Baits levels of capability via firepower buffs and other things they could do for them. Heck, your M1A2 has even stayed at 11.7, whereas the Leopard 2A5 & PSO (i.e its direct counterparts) have gone up to 12.0, the latter actually being worse than the 2A5 for direct tank engagements, actually why am I even mentioning Leopard 2s, your M1A2 is lower in BR than the poor Merkava Mk.4s, Leclercs and Chinese MBTs, sitting at the same BR as the Arietes (LOL).
If US (overall) were to be treated like Germany is, your jets would only get ~2 Mavericks at best with no TGP, no new CAS jets for 2 years straight, your “”“top tier”“” CAP jet would be down to 13.0, and your IFV and MBTs would never ever be improved in any way unless it’s something very unimportant for its performance, bah, you’d actually get nerfed in the meantime under the guise of “realism”.
You’re hyper-focused on “the issue” of M833, but should you actually expand your horizon and look at how US is being treated compared to most other nations between 9.0 and 12.0, you’ll notice that in the recent past, they’ve received a lot more buffs than the other “majors”. You’ve even forgotten that you have the M60-120S at 10.3 with M829A1 and 2nd generation thermals, whereas pretty much nobody else has an equivalent for it that is in the TT, even with them not having any TT “near top tier” APFSDS projectiles at such low of a BR.
tl;dr, all I’m hearing is “mimi US sufferz”.
After you write a whole post crying “mimimimi germany suffers” when compared to the USA lmao
After purchasing the M1 kvt I’m kind of split on this subject, the tank has great mobility and gun handling, armor is decent but not great, the current round seems ok if you’re top br but from my experience that is almost never the case, it’s pretty much guaranteed 11.3-11.7 battles every game, this round is not ideal for facing this br. IMO the Leopard 2A4 is a better tank at 10.7
Love ya too mate :P
I love it even more that whenever I go around and talk about the US, you appear and put words in my mouth due to your own personal vendetta against me or something, lol. Honest actual cope.
You brought up a pretty bad example of that when you mentioned TTS. Not only it has above average round for it’s BR, it has wide variety of other pros when compared to contemporaries. That tank is far, far away from being an argument of “US suffers”. M1 as well.
Lately top tier M1s have been buffed to the point some top tier tanks like Challengers are objectively worse vehicles at the same BR. I doubt you’ll see this from a nation Gaijin doesn’t treat well.
You also forgot it can reload in 5s and have really good turret armor. Only thing that is stopping 120S from going to 11.7/12.0 as a quasi-light vehicle is it’s poor mobility.
Why is this even still an argument, even if the M1 had M833 it would be such a minor upgrade it wouldn’t even change anything besides the fact that penetration is now less inconsistent and the sorta fix the low spalling(though this can still be stuck in with the previous statement)
The round is just bad and even things at much lower BRs have better rounds than it such as the T-62M1, Leopard 1A1/5, Radkampfwagen, Leopard 2K, AMX-40 and this keeps going.
in a vacuum of nothing but statistics it looks perfectly fine, the gun might be mediocre but the mobility is amazing and the armor is decent.
But the problem comes in when you bring up the fact it’s war thunder and a real 3D environment, the round it has may usually be able to pen a T-72 turms from the side but the round is bad enough that the contact one on the side can eat the whole thing if you’re unlucky, it’s also 105 when nearly every other MBT has a 120 which in game has (seemingly) twice the spall(combining damage and fragment amount)
In the Leopard 2A4 shooting another 2A4 in the hull often does tons of damage or kills them outright, but in my experience in the M1 with M774 it either kills 1 guy, doesn’t pen or kills 2 and the engine, you could argue a skill issue here but at 10.7 and above you really don’t have time to aim very well most of the time and it’s usually who ever clicks first wins, but not when you click first and the round kills one guy and looses enough power to not kill the second.
M833 isn’t some god round that’ll literally make the M1 the best tank in the game, but what it will do is make it less infuriating to play at times.
(You basically have no chance against stuff like the T-80UD and M833 isn’t going though that thing either)
M1 might have a worse round than things at a much lower BRs, but you have to realize other tanks will have worse metrics than things at a much lower BR, that’s just how stuff works in this game.
For example, T-72B has mobility that you used to see on ~8.3 vehicles, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad tank overall and in a need of buffs.
K-1 eating rounds from side on is a bug and will happen even with top tier rounds, it’s not a M774 specific issue.
I had zero issues OHK’ing 2A4s with M774.
If you kill only a single crew from the frontal shot you’re probably aiming to the right side and killing only it’s loader or going for low shot to the LFP. I doubt I ever saw a Leopard not exploding after getting shot in the driver’s optic.
What’s so difficult about T-80UD ?
It gets a slightly better reload but loses thermals while inheriting common flaws from T-series tanks so usual weakspots will still work.
