North Korean Sub-Tree

I would have to disagree with you, NK has some really interesting modifications to Soviet vehicles that I think would honestly be very fun to play, China would benefit greatly from NK ground forces. China will grow but only in the higher tiers, NK would work nicely to beef up Chinese low-mid tiers.

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It’s hard to understand how this could be connected.

Yes… of course, instead of NK here, you could put Poland, Czechoslovakia, Turkiye, Ukraine, India, Thailand… Any of them would benefit China. So why must it be NK? Just because they are Asian?

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Apart from Thailand, you named all the countries that have either no real geopolitical ties with China or is China’s enemy, NK has been an extremely close ally of China, hence they would be an extremely suitable option for China.

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Honestly, it united with South Korea just for the games sake makes more sense.

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Try Pakistan

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So why mentioned this? There would be no problem with your logic if you had mentioned Chinese vehicles instead of Soviet vehicles. But it makes no logical sense to modified Soviet vehicles and have them for China…

And if it were me, I would support for a Chinese export vehicle line instead of sub-tree addiction. China has built enough vehicles that there is no need to rely on sub-trees.

Even if China gets a sub-tree by any chance, it has to be Pakistan, as @Mahiwew said. Because it has greater technological relevance to China, both on the ground and in the air. For example, among North Korea’s tanks, except for the Type 59, there is no trace of Chinese technology. And Pakistan will actually benefit China more in the game.

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The North Korean 323 APC is based on the Chinese Type 63 APC (YW531) and has a number of derivatives:

  • 323 with 76mm
  • 323 with 122mm
  • 323 with 9M14 ATGM
  • 323 with MLRS (Chinese rocket version and a Soviet rocket version)
  • 323 Light Tank using the 85mm gun of the Chinese Type 62/63

The ‘M1981’ Sinhŭng light tank is derived from the 323 chassis and uses a gun derived from that of the Chinese Type 62/63.

The ‘M2018’ NLOS ATGM carrier uses NLOS ATGMs presumably derived from China’s HJ-10. Russia doesn’t use NLOS ATGMs, and the only other similar weapon is Israel’s SPIKE NLOS.

The M1978 Tŏkch’ŏn (37mm) SPAA uses dual 37mm Chinese guns (albeit originally derived from Soviet ones).

North Korea also operated the Type 62 and Type 63.

North Korea may also use Chinese ammunition for their 125mm guns on the Sŏn’gun and M2020 MBTs, although admittedly that’s basically an educated guess.

And this is just vehicles, there are many more weapons in North Korea’s arsenal derived from Chinese ones.

Yes, there are more technological links between the DPRK and USSR/Russia, but the links between the DPRK and China aren’t as few as just the Type 59.

But I think considering North Korea’s closer political ties to China, starting after the Sino-Soviet split, I believe China is the best tree for North Korean vehicles (and as a tiny extra point, the North Korean-operated Shenyang F-5 is also already in the Chinese tree).

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There is no disagreement about VTT-323s and others, but I said “tank”.
Tanks are the most iconic ground force, and North Korean MBT is the Ch’ŏnma series, the T-62 variation.

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Fair, but not every vehicle in the game is a tank (by the proper definition). We should talk about every possible vehicle, not just one category that makes your argument stronger.

Regardless, I did still name tanks. The M1981, Type 62, Type 63 and the 323 light tank, are all tanks.

Then I can agree with you on that point.

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I see little reason to put it in the Chinese tree over Pakistan though, as while DPRK equipment may be Chinese derived to a certain extent, Pakistani equipment is often made with direct Chinese assistance.

why does it have to be one or the other? the Swedish tree has Swedish, Finnish and Norwegian vehicles. If Gaijin expand trees to have more than 5 lines, it could easily have a Norwegian sub-tree, and likewise China could easily have an export line, Pakistan and North Korea.

Although, does Pakistan have the same level of unique, primarily indigenous vehicles as North Korea, or are they predominantly export vehicles just sold to Pakistan? I feel like the tree that has the most vehicles should be given priority too, and my (updated, haven’t edited this thread yet) tree currently has ~40 unique vehicles and their variants, and another couple that are only minor modifications of Soviet/Chinese ones.

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No, Pakistan doesn’t have the same capacity as North Korea, but it would be able to provide vehicles that DPRK wouldn’t, such as early western tanks. One could argue in favor of DPRK adding to an Eastern identity for China, but I am more in favor of the diverse identity and thus think that is one of the reasons why Pakistan suits it better.

Additionally, Norwegian tanks aren’t already im the Swedish tree as you say, it’s only two premiums.
The writing is arguably on the wall, but so long as there isn’t a formal sub-tree the statement can’t be made that they are part of the tree.

UPDATED – 14/01/24

  • Redid entire tree, added plenty of new vehicles, streamlined it a bunch
    • Added current in-game Chinese SPAA to the tree to show what it could look like all together
  • Redid this post, added clear suggestion links for all vehicles that have them, going to start filling these all out ASAP

Current tree:

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I see M2020 and M2020 (2023), what’s the difference?

The 2023 model has ERA on the turret front, as well as some sort of composite block on the hull sides:

  • 2023

Screenshot 2024-01-15 at 08.15.47

  • 2020
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i absolutely love the idea of a sub nation line for china, but most of these are really similar and some are too modern, for example the M2010-II, a 2010 car fighting 1940’s if not 30’s vehicles doesnt sound like a very good idea (tho the italian leo 1 at 5.3 if im not mistaken exists). maybe moving some to another lines, deleting some or make a many sub nations (ej: bangladesh, pakistan, etc) would be a better idea :)

but most of these are really similar

The Ch’onma variants? Some of them could easily be taken out, I put in practically every single one to show the possiblities.

, for example the M2010-II, a 2010 car fighting 1940’s if not 30’s vehicles doesnt sound like a very good idea

That’s fair enough, and I do mention that in my (currently pending) suggestion post for it. I think it could easily be replaced with the 323 with a quad 14.5mm, similar to the BTR-152D, at the same BR, which instead is a 60s chassis and open-topped. Even though the the M2010 only has 2x 14.5mm i can see how it would break what little immersion there is right now, haha.

I fully support adding vehicles from both Koreas into the game, but only if they were combined into a single, independent tech tree. No sub-trees.

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I think China’s top air defense vehicles need HQ17A, FK2000 and FK3000, including IFV.

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